Surbuf or Meguiar's DA Microfiber

[Rei86]

The pads are nothing alike..the MF pads are like long plush MF the Surbuf I would call it more like a buzzcut hairstyle
quick pic i took while ago

I was about to post that. I have Surbuf at the house and its nothing like the MF DA pad in looks. Not only that from the method that Kevin Brown posted its not that friendly to use either for the auto paint crew.

 

[tuscarora dave]

I just tried the Megs MF kit for the first time yesterday. I'm not sure what technique you guys that are having success with this kit are using but I didn't get through half of a Ford Escape before the velcro on both the MF cutting pads supplied in the kit separated from the foam.

This seems to be the same story over and over when I use a PC style machine with any type of pads. I kind of knew that this would happen and sort of feel foolish for even buying the kit now.

I am sure that it is my style of polishing which is to push on to get the job done as fast as possible that gets these pads too hot and causes the adhesive to fail. It seems to me that If I had a dozen of these pads I could do a few section passes and switch to a cool clean pad for the next section and so on and make them work for me.

My thoughts now are to get the smallest MF pads and try them out on my Cyclo which never destroys pads for me. So the question that I would have regarding Surbuf/Meg's MF pads is has anyone tried them on a Cyclo polisher yet?

 

[RaskyR1]

I just tried the Megs MF kit for the first time yesterday. I'm not sure what technique you guys that are having success with this kit are using but I didn't get through half of a Ford Escape before the velcro on both the MF cutting pads supplied in the kit separated from the foam.

This seems to be the same story over and over when I use a PC style machine with any type of pads. I kind of knew that this would happen and sort of feel foolish for even buying the kit now.

I am sure that it is my style of polishing which is to push on to get the job done as fast as possible that gets these pads too hot and causes the adhesive to fail. It seems to me that If I had a dozen of these pads I could do a few section passes and switch to a cool clean pad for the next section and so on and make them work for me.

My thoughts now are to get the smallest MF pads and try them out on my Cyclo which never destroys pads for me. So the question that I would have regarding Surbuf/Meg's MF pads is has anyone tried them on a Cyclo polisher yet?

What speed are you running the MF disks at Dave? I've been using these pads since last November and have only had 2 pads fail...one of which was being used at excessive speeds. Do you have the correct backing plate?

 

[Tom Weed]

What speed are you running the MF disks at Dave? I've been using these pads since last November and have only had 2 pads fail...one of which was being used at excessive speeds. Do you have the correct backing plate?

Just to add to what Rasky has said, I've found that cleaning the pads after each section with air and once the pad gets saturated in the foam backing, and starts showing up on the backing plate, then time to reach for a new pad.

 

[Kevin Brown]

... I'm not sure what technique you guys that are having success with this kit are using but I didn't get through half of a Ford Escape before the velcro on both the MF cutting pads supplied in the kit separated from the foam...

I am sure that it is my style of polishing which is to push on to get the job done as fast as possible that gets these pads too hot and causes the adhesive to fail....

Short of doing something completely odd in terms of "procedure", the discs should not fail unless there was a manufacturing glitch.

I would return those discs and have them replaced under warranty.

There have been instances of premature failure (and we've read about them), so I suspect that something went awry during the manufacturing of a batch of discs. I have never seen the manufacturing process, but I can assure you no expense was spared to ensure a consistent and durable product leave the plant.

Could be something as simple as a "glue glitch", where not enough was sprayed, or who knows what. Whatever the cause, the percentage of failure is incredibly low, but if an issue arose during an early batch run, we would see it on the forums because a lot of us purchased introductory kits.

I personally spent all sorts of time trying to get those little things to fail, and never saw a catastrophic failure until about six weeks ago. I was using a 5.5" disc, felt a shimmy, and the disc split in two (the way you might twist an OREO cookie into two)! No harm done, but I reported it immediately.

There's simply too much time and money invested in this product to accept failures, and from what I know, the issue is not being taken lightly. Pretty sure the failure rate is negligible (perhaps less than 1 out of every 1000), and you'll know within minutes. Should be no issue getting a free replacement. Confidence is very high that this is not the norm.

It's a big deal when you're excited to use the system and the disc comes apart, so I understand your frustration. Meguiar's will appreciate your frustration, and will certainly do whatever they can to make things right with you.

And if by chance you cannot get a free replacement, I will take care of it myself, and send you some replacement discs from my personal stash.

[email protected]

 

[tuscarora dave]

What speed are you running the MF disks at Dave? I've been using these pads since last November and have only had 2 pads fail...one of which was being used at excessive speeds. Do you have the correct backing plate?

I was running my G110v2 at speed 4.5 while applying medium to heavy pressure on it. I have been watching yours and Joe's threads very closely concerning these pads and this is why I purchased them in the first place. When these pads failed, in light of your success with these pads I was thinking it must be my technique. I've had the same problem with the LC pads on a PC style DA too but was running them at speed 6. (edit) I was running the backing plate that came with the 5 inch kit.

Just to add to what Rasky has said, I've found that cleaning the pads after each section with air and once the pad gets saturated in the foam backing, and starts showing up on the backing plate, then time to reach for a new pad.

Both of the pads that failed had gotten saturated through the pad and onto the backing plate. There was maybe a quarter sized spot of the correction fluid on the backing plate so I'm lumping too much product usage in with the technique problems.

Short of doing something completely odd in terms of "procedure", the discs should not fail unless there was a manufacturing glitch.

I would return those discs and have them replaced under warranty.

There have been instances of premature failure (and we've read about them), so I suspect that something went awry during the manufacturing of a batch of discs. I have never seen the manufacturing process, but I can assure you no expense was spared to ensure a consistent and durable product leave the plant.

Could be something as simple as a "glue glitch", where not enough was sprayed, or who knows what. Whatever the cause, the percentage of failure is incredibly low, but if an issue arose during an early batch run, we would see it on the forums because a lot of us purchased introductory kits.

I personally spent all sorts of time trying to get those little things to fail, and never saw a catastrophic failure until about six weeks ago. I was using a 5.5" disc, felt a shimmy, and the disc split in two (the way you might twist an OREO cookie into two)! No harm done, but I reported it immediately.

There's simply too much time and money invested in this product to accept failures, and from what I know, the issue is not being taken lightly. Pretty sure the failure rate is negligible (perhaps less than 1 out of every 1000), and you'll know within minutes. Should be no issue getting a free replacement. Confidence is very high that this is not the norm.

It's a big deal when you're excited to use the system and the disc comes apart, so I understand your frustration. Meguiar's will appreciate your frustration, and will certainly do whatever they can to make things right with you.

And if by chance you cannot get a free replacement, I will take care of it myself, and send you some replacement discs from my personal stash.


[email protected]

Thanks Kevin I had tried the weting agents (light mist of water) as you had described in your article about wetting agents and thought that this may have contributed to the failure also. I'll be getting some more of these pads and will try to refine my technique a bit to see how it works out because I have to say that I was quite impressed with how they were working out until the velcro separated.

 

[RaskyR1]

I'd follow Kevin's advice Dave and contact Meguiars. All the pads I have have been in use since The initial release or even before, so it could have just been a bad batch later on in production.


Just to note, it's my understanding that the polish should not be able to penetrate beyond the MF material, and that there was an barrier designed into the pad construction to keep this from happening. I have yet to use more than two pad an a car for correction.


Keep us posted Dave. rops:

 

[tuscarora dave]

I'd follow Kevin's advice Dave and contact Meguiars. All the pads I have have been in use since The initial release or even before, so it could have just been a bad batch later on in production.


Just to note, it's my understanding that the polish should not be able to penetrate beyond the MF material, and that there was an barrier designed into the pad construction to keep this from happening. I have yet to use more than two pad an a car for correction.


Keep us posted Dave. rops:

Thanks Chad, the pads don't seem to have the barrier that you speak of. I have been following Kevin's advice since I first met him in the TID chat room and as a result I have been able to achieve much nicer results in half the time. I absolutely trust everything that you guys recommend. Thanks for the great information on this system because yesterday i was ready to raffle off my G110V2 and every pad and backing plate that fits on it. I'll keep you guys posted for sure.

 

[Tom Weed]

I'd follow Kevin's advice Dave and contact Meguiars. All the pads I have have been in use since The initial release or even before, so it could have just been a bad batch later on in production.


Just to note, it's my understanding that the polish should not be able to penetrate beyond the MF material, and that there was an barrier designed into the pad construction to keep this from happening. I have yet to use more than two pad an a car for correction.


Keep us posted Dave. rops:

Rasky,
I usually check the pads after a few panels, I actually turned a a buddy lose on his truck with a 3" cutting pad, and I was busy polishing another panel, I didnt' catch him in time to save the pad, but he was applying too much pressure and moving the pad too fast, it came apart. On the pads I have, once you use it a few times I start seeing the compound coming thru the foam. Maybe I'm using too much product? After cleaning each time, I usually apply a thin circle around the pad.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Tom, how pronounced is the embossed "M" on the back of your pads?

One thing I noticed is that with the initial batch I received that M script was barely visible, and I too have seen product coming through the foam onto the backing plate, but on all the pads I've received since the "M" is very pronounced and I don't get any soak-thru. None of my originals have failed like others have experienced (yet) but they're still in service so we'll see if any of them do eventually come apart on me.

Not sure why there's a difference, but it obviously indicates some fluctuations/discrepancies in production between batches.

 

[RaskyR1]

Rasky,
I usually check the pads after a few panels, I actually turned a a buddy lose on his truck with a 3" cutting pad, and I was busy polishing another panel, I didnt' catch him in time to save the pad, but he was applying too much pressure and moving the pad too fast, it came apart. On the pads I have, once you use it a few times I start seeing the compound coming thru the foam. Maybe I'm using too much product? After cleaning each time, I usually apply a thin circle around the pad.

Yeah, that's definitely too much product. 3 pea sized drops is all you need per section. I've never noticed any product coming through the backing and I typically only use one pad per car, and 2 on larger cars or SUV's...this is cleaning with air after each section.

I have noticed the "M" embossing to fade away after a couple uses, but this doesn't seem to make a difference in how the pad performs.

I ususally lower the speed to 3.5 on the GG6 with the 3" pads.

Kevin, can you comment on the pad saturation and whether or not there is supposed to be some sort of barrier which inhibits pad saturation?


Rasky

 

[Tom Weed]

Thanks for the tip Rasky, I will use a that method my next detail!

 

[PAR Detailing]

I just had my first MF pad fail on me but like Rasky I was using excessive speed and really pushing the pad to the limits and I was using an LC backing plate. The wrong type of BP can really generate some heat.

I am working on doing a write-up on the MF system but totally different then what you normally see. I have been working with Kevin Brown over the phone about it. He has been nice enough to take the time to talk to me over the phone and discuss the system.

I feel most people have only scratched the surface with this system. I am trying to work on figuring this system out more and more each day.

I have removed 2500 and even 1500 grit sanding marks so far with the system. I am going to try 1000 and 800 grit soon. I also removed bird poop etching with the system as well.

Long story short, I highly recommend the system!

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I also removed bird poop etching with the system as well.

:iagree: I've found it to work great for that purpose, at the very least decreasing the appearance of the etching if it's really deep but in other cases fully removing the etch.

 

[Old Tiger]

I've completely stopped using surbufs. They aren't durable at all, cut good, but finish with a lot of micro marring, I feel the Meg's MF pads are much more durable, cut better, and finish a lot better!

What Mark said! Agree on all counts!

 

[land]

Hey i love them both my only complate is that 4 mf cutting pads have ripped right off the velcro . Thank gooood no damage to the vehicles.

 

[tuscarora dave]

Keep us posted Dave. rops:

This evening I was polishing a red 2003 F-250 with my Flex 3401 and a cyan hydrotech pad using D151. Just out of curiosity I put a Meg's MF finishing disc on my G110V2 lightly primed the finishing disc with D151 and applied a few pea sized drops in addition to priming the disc. I went to work on the front door to do a side by side comparison against the rear door that was done with the Flex and cyan pad.

I was so impressed by the fact that I was getting a better finish in less time using the G110V2 than with the Flex and cyan pad that I finished the rest of that side of the truck with the MF disc and DA polisher. Mark (07 z-oh-6) said that the G110V2 was awesome where up until now I had found it to be just average but with this MF system, I too can say that the G110V2 is awesome.

Using less product, the pads held up nicely and actually ran very cool compared to the cutting discs where I had been applying too much product. I am very happy with the performance of this combo and will be using it often.

Thanks guys for the feedback and advice.:xyxthumbs:

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I was so impressed by the fact that I was getting a better finish in less time using the G110V2 than with the Flex and cyan pad that I finished the rest of that side of the truck with the MF disc and DA polisher. Mark (07 z-oh-6) said that the G110V2 was awesome where up until now I had found it to be just average but with this MF system, I too can say that the G110V2 is awesome.

Awesome, Dave! rops:

I've been saying for a long time, whenever I need the most cut from a DA, I reach for the MF pads. They cut better than anything I've ever used on the Flex 3401. Sounds crazy, but it's true!

 

[tuscarora dave]

Awesome, Dave! rops:

I've been saying for a long time, whenever I need the most cut from a DA, I reach for the MF pads. They cut better than anything I've ever used on the Flex 3401. Sounds crazy, but it's true!

Yeah, I never would have thought I'd be saying that my Flex and Makita may be taking a back seat to my G110V2 but with the fact that there was not one speck of dust and no splatter, at least for now this is the case. Thanks Mark.

 

[bimmer325!]

Surbuf's leave tic marks, cuts about the same, durability hmm questionable on 50 cars I've flat spotted the middle of 2 of them on boats, the backing started coming off in the middle of one other, this was all on cutting disk, the finishing disk still look new after a ton of aio jobs

John..thats because they say surbuf NOT boatbuf....