Two bucket vs Garry Dean wash

[allenk4]

Most misunderstood aspect of chemistry - Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum

No Rinse vrs Conventional Soaps - Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum

Then what is he comparing? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like that's his comparison when you see what he's quoting.

What I was getting at is that Dr. G is removing the water from the equation when comparing ONR vs. 2BM. He is comparing the chemicals...not the effectiveness of one process versus the other process


I have done the GDM and variations of it on my black SUV

The rinseless technique has it's place; which IMO is for lightly soiled vehicles, of lighter colors, with harder clear coat


I do not believe there is any agreement that the rinseless technique removes as much material from the vehicle as a 2BM does

It is not a fair comparison, because the 2BM has the distinct advantage on water pressure and volume to blast dirt out of the cracks, crevices and paint surfaces before the paint is ever touched and increases this advantage after the agitation stage of the 2BM by removing additional dirt before the paint is touched again during the drying process

With less contamination/dirt on the paint when it is touched; there is a corresponding decrease in the available materials that damage the paint during each stage of "touching"

 

[cfiiman]

Didn't read all the responses so don't know if my process has been mentioned but I kind of use a hybrid of 2BM, WW and RW. I start with RW in one bucket, then a clean water bucket, grit guards in both. Then I use a microfiber wash mitt just like I would using the 2BM only I prime the panels with WW first and only do a few passes before going into the clean water then back to the RW solution to start over, works great, I'll never pull the hose out again unless it is REALLY dirty plus only 2 mitts to clean, one for upper panels, one for lower.

 

[phens82]

The thing that I find most appealing about a rinseless wash is the LACK of extra water coming from side view mirrors, window trim, and SUV tailgates -- weeping down the dry body panels and creating streaks. When doing rinseless, I end up with cleaner windows, mirrors, and body panels because I don't get all the drips after I dry.

 

[allenk4]

I am no expert just a home hobbiest but I think most marring comes from drying more so than washing.

I disagree

The level of contamination on the paint should decrease with each step of the washing process. For example:

Dirty Car
+ Pressure Rinse
= Less Dirty Car
+ Foam Cannon/Gun
= Even Less Dirty Car
+ Agitation with Wash Mitt and car "soap"
= Even Less Dirty Car
+ Drying with microfiber towels
= Even Less Dirty Car

In each step the contaminants are affected by the process and after each step, there should be less dirt/contamination on the surface being washed


All marring comes from the application of an abrasive substance to the paint, under pressure. This can be a particle of dirt, compound, a rough towel, your callused hand, etc.

The more of these abrasives you can remove, prior to physically touching the paint...the less chance there is of inflicting defects in the paint

 

[Kacz]

Shampoo is not a technical term. I think Dr. G was using the term "soap" colloquially as there are very few soaps today in any context, they are all detergents, whether it be car wash, body wash, (hair) shampoo, laundry er...detergent, etc.

I can see that--most people use the term soap anyways.

However, I did think the correct definition of these car wash products are shampoos....but that's not based on my own knowledge of the specific chemistry involved.

What I was getting at is that Dr. G is removing the water from the equation when comparing ONR vs. 2BM. He is comparing the chemicals...not the effectiveness of one process versus the other process


I have done the GDM and variations of it on my black SUV

The rinseless technique has it's place; which IMO is for lightly soiled vehicles, of lighter colors, with harder clear coat


I do not believe there is any agreement that the rinseless technique removes as much material from the vehicle as a 2BM does

It is not a fair comparison, because the 2BM has the distinct advantage on water pressure and volume to blast dirt out of the cracks, crevices and paint surfaces before the paint is ever touched and increases this advantage after the agitation stage of the 2BM by removing additional dirt before the paint is touched again during the drying process

With less contamination/dirt on the paint when it is touched; there is a corresponding decrease in the available materials that damage the paint during each stage of "touching"

I still think he is saying that 'no rinse' is safer than a traditional wash process based on how he answered the question in the second thread I posted.

If he is JUST comparing chemistry then that's fine, but the question was pretty simple.

Also, for the record: I'm not arguing with you or ZL1 Mark--I completely agree that a traditional wash is much safer, but I wanted to point out what the pioneer of the rinse-less wash has shared. I saw it as him saying that using these products are safer and I was scratching my head in disagreement based on my real world findings.

 

[Bunky]

You can still pre-rinse cars in rinseless to reduce the build up. If the goal is to save water, it can reduce the water usage significantly depending on your own habits.

 

[allenk4]

You can still pre-rinse cars in rinseless to reduce the build up. If the goal is to save water, it can reduce the water usage significantly depending on your own habits.

IMO, if you are getting out the hose....doing a rinseless is silly as it defeats all of the aforementioned positives of the rinseless process

I will never consider washing my car, a waste of water

 

[mwoolfso]

Interesting that Dr G is really only comparing traditional soap to ONR and is NOT comparing 2BM vs Rinseless

The quoted comments by Dr. G really don't apply to the discussion at hand

No offense intended but maybe his explanation does apply and he was talking beyond the realm of what you were expecting. Personally, I see the explanation as a way of simplifying washing methods.

 

[tnecniv]

You guys are being stubborn and for some reason can't get it through your heads that all though ONR is called a "rinseless wash", it is still a car "soap/shampoo". When using ONR you are not restricted to using any method to wash your car with it. You can still pressure wash your car and then wash, using ONR as your soap instead of "traditional soap".

DON'T LET THE SUDS FOOL YOU

 

[Real Riders]

The great thing about a Rinseless Wash is you can do it while on vacation. I did a Garry Dean Wash Method Rinseless Wash on our Nissan Xterra in a Hampton Inn Parking lot in about 40 minutes. I used one gallon of water and a spray bottle with pre soak solution. The Xterra turned out great while all the other cars in the parking lot were filthy.

 

[Tacket]

The thing that I find most appealing about a rinseless wash is the LACK of extra water coming from side view mirrors, window trim, and SUV tailgates -- weeping down the dry body panels and creating streaks. When doing rinseless, I end up with cleaner windows, mirrors, and body panels because I don't get all the drips after I dry.

+1 : agree - car actually seems cleaner when I do a RW vs 2BM. BUT my car is never that dirty to begin with.

 

[sweatthedetails]

So hot in FL, been doing the rinsless thing in my garage. That is the biggest advatage IMHO.

 

[swanicyouth]

IMO, if you are getting out the hose....doing a rinseless is silly as it defeats all of the aforementioned positives of the rinseless process

I will never consider washing my car, a waste of water

Disagree.

Rinseless is still faster - you need less buckets (GDWM). Also, you don't have to really worry about water spots (summer) - since your drying as you go along. You also don't have to rinse your mitt (GDWM) or constantly keep spraying the car down to keep it wet (sun).

A lot of people QD or spray wax after a 2BM - if you use a rinseless with some wax (Pinnacle) you can skip that step.

I use the pressure washer to pre-rinse, clean wheels, and wells. Then do a quick DI water rinse. Then just do a rinseless. Its faster, comes out better, and works well.

 

[allenk4]

Disagree.

Rinseless is still faster - you need less buckets (GDWM). Also, you don't have to really worry about water spots (summer) - since your drying as you go along. You also don't have to rinse your mitt (GDWM) or constantly keep spraying the car down to keep it wet (sun).

A lot of people QD or spray wax after a 2BM - if you use a rinseless with some wax (Pinnacle) you can skip that step.

I use the pressure washer to pre-rinse, clean wheels, and wells. Then do a quick DI water rinse. Then just do a rinseless. Its faster, comes out better, and works well.

You mention that it, "comes out better"; what are your measures of "better"?


I am less concerned with getting out one extra bucket and spending a few extra minutes on the process than I am with marring paint

I could use a "wash & wax" soap, but I wouldn't

On your truck I would rinse my mitt 11 times at 5 seconds per rinse = <1 minute

BTW, since you have a CR Spotless...you could skip the drying step...if you were doing a 2BM. So in your own example using your own equipment, I bet my 2BM would take less time. But, that's not my point


I use both techniques, but arguing that GDM is safer for paint is not true in my opinion. I do notice that defenders of the GDM are quick to add variables like using a PW for pre-rinse


Again, I sometimes do a rinseless when the vehicle is very lightly soiled

 

[FUNX650]

You guys are being stubborn and for some reason can't get it through your heads that all though ONR is called a "rinseless wash", it is still a car "soap/shampoo".

IMO:
•Depends on how each individual "car washer"
defines car-"soap/shampoo".

-For example:
My car-wash shampoos must have
"soapy/(detergenty)-surfactants"!


Questions:
•Does ONR-W&S have "surfactants"?
•Can "substantive polymers" be modified to be surfactants?
_________________________________________________

From ONR-W&S Product Description:

"No Rinse™ Wash & Shine is the most technologically advanced car wash system that only requires 1-2 gallons of water to wash the entire car. No Rinse™ Wash & Shine does not require rinsing since there are no soapy surfactants to wash off into the storm drains.

This unique product contains substantive polymers which bond to the paint and protect it during the wash. Therefore, No Rinse™ Wash & Shine offers greater protection and lubricity than conventional car washes leaving a sleek & glossy finish behind afterwards."
________________________________________________

When using ONR you are not restricted to using any method to wash your car with it. You can still pressure wash your car and then wash, using ONR as your soap instead of "traditional soap".

DON'T LET THE SUDS FOOL YOU

I'd still rather have some "soapy/detergenty surfactants",
whenever I use a car-wash shampoo!!

Bob

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I agree with Allen 100%.


In a nutshell, how can it be safer if you're not rinsing dirt off the car as opposed to actually rinsing dirt OFF the car before drying?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

In a nutshell, how can it be safer if you're not rinsing dirt off the car as opposed to actually rinsing dirt OFF the car before drying?

I'm actually not arguing this either way, I'm kind of agnostic on this topic, but IMO in both methods you are washing the dirt off the car, in a conventional wash you are then rinsing the soap residue off, where in a rinseless, you are wiping the product residue off...the dirt is trapped in/by the wash media in either method.

 

[chet31]

You mention that it, "comes out better"; what are your measures of "better"?


I am less concerned with getting out one extra bucket and spending a few extra minutes on the process than I am with marring paint

I could use a "wash & wax" soap, but I wouldn't

On your truck I would rinse my mitt 11 times at 5 seconds per rinse = <1 minute

BTW, since you have a CR Spotless...you could skip the drying step...if you were doing a 2BM. So in your own example using your own equipment, I bet my 2BM would take less time. But, that's not my point


I use both techniques, but arguing that GDM is safer for paint is not true in my opinion. I do notice that defenders of the GDM are quick to add variables like using a PW for pre-rinse


Again, I sometimes do a rinseless when the vehicle is very lightly soiled

His opinion is his car looks cleaner after doing rinseless. Your opinion is that 2-bucket is safer. Neither of you are right or wrong. If both methods cause no swirls when done properly, perhaps both methods are safe.

 

[allenk4]

His opinion is his car looks cleaner after doing rinseless. Your opinion is that 2-bucket is safer. Neither of you are right or wrong. If both methods cause no swirls when done properly, perhaps both methods are safe.

You should probably let him make his opinion known.

I don't recall him stating "his car looks cleaner after doing rinseless
"

 

[Shakabruddah808]

I'm now totally committed to the 1 bucket multi-towel wash method promoted by Garry Dean. Saves me the better part of an hour for washing.
Just wondering if anyone has tried it but didnt like it. Or simply "wont" even give it a try and your reasons why. Thanks

I've done Garry Dean's method a couple times in the past, and have found it to be quicker and more convenient than either a traditional or rinse-less wash. However, my peeve against this method is that it uses up so many MF towels! Whatever time (and water) I saved using Garry's method is negated by the extra towels that have to be washed. And my MF collection is not very extensive to begin with.

So I'll be sticking with my current wash methods: Traditional two-bucket using Duragloss 901 for when my car is filthy, stinking dirty, or ONR for regular, light washing.

Or I can wait till I win the TX lottery and hire Scottwax to detail my car for me.

Yeah, right. Me winning the lottery. Funny joke. Haha. LOL :laughing: