When Did This Get So Complicated?

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Setec Astronomy

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I'm sitting here tonight looking at the newb threads, and realizing that although we have so many great products today, which make detailing so much easier than a dozen years ago (which is when I came to the forum world), it's gotta be so much more complicated for a newb, because there are SO many products now.

I mean, a dozen years ago, if you wanted to machine polish, you most likely weren't going to go with a rotary, so there was one machine: the original PC. There weren't any CCS pads, foamed wool, microfiber, there were flat pads, and there were less colors than today, and there was pretty much one diameter...I mean nobody even talked about pad diameter. Most people used Meg's 80-series polishes, there was 3M, and a few people used Menzerna (but there were much fewer choices, just PG, IP, and FPII...oh, and FMJ :p )

Anyway, it's not like there weren't a lot of choices back then, there were just so many fewer, it seemed like there were less brands..I dunno, maybe because we didn't have the PBMG superstores then. I can just see how newbs today get utterly confused, it was confusing enough back in the day...
 
Just think about what's coming also ....
 
I couldn't agree with you more so very true Sectec Astronomy
 
As confusing as it may be for a new comer, they have the benefit of this awesome community. Many that came before did not have this and had to learn by trial and error.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I'm sitting here tonight looking at the newb threads, and realizing that although we have so many great products today, which make detailing so much easier than a dozen years ago (which is when I came to the forum world), it's gotta be so much more complicated for a newb, because there are SO many products now.

I mean, a dozen years ago, if you wanted to machine polish, you most likely weren't going to go with a rotary, so there was one machine: the original PC. There weren't any CCS pads, foamed wool, microfiber, there were flat pads, and there were less colors than today, and there was pretty much one diameter...I mean nobody even talked about pad diameter. Most people used Meg's 80-series polishes, there was 3M, and a few people used Menzerna (but there were much fewer choices, just PG, IP, and FPII...oh, and FMJ :p )

Anyway, it's not like there weren't a lot of choices back then, there were just so many fewer, it seemed like there were less brands..I dunno, maybe because we didn't have the PBMG superstores then. I can just see how newbs today get utterly confused, it was confusing enough back in the day...
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And the haters hated on Zaino because of alllllll the steps it took....like prepping the paint naked for z2p. Like seriously, thats child play now.
 
Even since 09 when I first started lurking, it's grown a lot.
 
JeffM said:
And the haters hated on Zaino because of alllllll the steps it took....like prepping the paint naked for z2p. Like seriously, thats child play now.
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LOL, that is so funny! Yeah, all that Zaino stuff, and to a lesser degree, the Klasse regimen, are simple compared to when you get into coatings and flash time and high spots.
 
I agree, we have polish that are sealants,glaze that are actually polishes, wax that are really sealants, different mf towels etc. Now throw in Menzerna changing labels and names of their line, DP gone and all the hype/hidden marketing of the new line, ongoing Optimum name changes of their coatings and the overwhelming amount of different pad sizes and colors. Even for an avid reader of this forum, if your away for say a month you really have to "catch up". I guess the best advice I can give a newb is to read here and ask for help. Help in the form of how and why and to avoid the "what's the best....", or "I spent a pretty penny on my ....". I have to say as a forum almost everyone is willing to help or at least chime in a suggestion
 
I also think that CG has hit a grand slam with their marketing, although redundant to most of us. You need to clean floor mats? They have Floor Mat cleaner! They make it easy for a newb
 
vobro said:
I also think that CG has hit a grand slam with their marketing, although redundant to most of us. You need to clean floor mats? They have Floor Mat cleaner! They make it easy for a newb
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Was that sarcasm? How do they make it easy when they have 7 products that do the same thing and they all pretty much have the same description?

Back to why I started this thread, I saw a post tonight with someone asking if a particular polish (that was suggested to solve his problem) would work with his 5.5" LC flat pads...and I thought, "does that mean he thinks he might need a different size pad to use that polish?" I mean sure, there were a lot of different pads way back when, and a lot of colors, but how many distinct lines of pads does LC have now? Flat, CCS, Hydro-Tech, Hybrid, HD, Thin-Pro, and that's not even getting into the wool and MF. And in some cases 3 or 4 diameters of each.

I have to say I started on forums at MOL, and it was pretty simple, there wasn't that much to choose from, you got your G100, you got your 3 flavors of foam pad (in one diameter) and you got your 3 or 4 80-series polishes, and that was it. Then someone at MOL mentioned Autopia...and then the world got a little bigger. And now it's just crazy.

Edit: I forgot the waffle pads. Since I mentioned Autopia, way back when we used to preach "process > product", which has kind of been lost and also why perhaps it's more confusing than it was. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
I'm sort of stuck in the past still.

With all the new stuff popping up left and right, the only aisle that grabs my interest is waterless/rinseless. Nothing but "basic" Hydro-Tech pads and Meg's tried and true M101 & M205 combo, and of course... the good ole' 7424xp.

I have other popular & favor of the month stuff, but those are just really for playing around/curiosity. Then again, I'm just a hobbyist and not the 'for profit' sector, so it's easy to not get carried away on my part.
 
I've been away for quite some time and it really is confusing at times with all the new stuff.
 
I agree. Once I took a step back and took more care to just understand the process behind each step it was a lot easier to separate the hype from the reality. It's also fortunate that we have so many people who share their findings and review things so that you can just search for "Ultima Paint Guard Plus Review Autogeek", "Menzerna Technique Autogeek" and 9/10 times you're going to find a thread on it with everyone weighing in on it.

I remember when I was first starting out there was a specific list of users I began to constantly recognize and I looked for their reviews/thoughts before anyone else's. Writing and sharing is really helpful even for people who just lurk.
 
I too have noticed a change in this industry and how the times are changing.

There are so many varying products and things coming to market in such a rapid pace it will make your head spin. Not to mention the coating craze that seems to be coming out of the wood work.

Where does a new user start?
 
One thing that is undeniable, is how marketing, advertising, promotions, etc are very effective in engaging the customer in a transaction.

This is why I reduced the number of lines I wanted to try, and have actually sold off most of my superfluous products.

I keep in mind that on one hand there are technological advancements in tools, compounds, and pads, and the other is the fact that these companies are in business also to make money. I weigh this against my "cobbled together" systems to see if the increased price outperforms my standard. Most times it' my selection of Meguiars Ultimate line, select Buff and Shine pads, and the PC that end up making the money. There are great companies out there, that I have absolutely no interest in trying.
 
There are no standards. It's a Wild West show. That's why there are so many options. Truth be told...if there were standards, half these products would be gone. Maybe more. I'm sure many would not meet safety and health standards at the very least.
 
I see the problem as two-fold.

1) The vast selection of products, as already mentioned. Even here in one store there are dozens of brands offering nearly identical products with more growing every day. The product descriptions messaged by the marketing departments of those companies don't help matters.

2) Many people want a "quick-fix". They are not patient enough to dig through reviews, forum comments, etc to find out what is best for them based on requirements and budgets. They are looking for one description or one forum recommendation that stands out and screams, "this one is for you."

I personally don't mind the huge variety. In fact, I like all the options. Of course, I'm also the type of guy who will spend a week researching something simple like car shampoo. Sigh...

With the massive expansion of products the one thing I'd like to see is offerings of smaller containers for products. It's hard for those of those small business/weekend warrior types to find something we really like when each thing we try takes years to consume. 6oz bottles would be great.
 
Desertnate said:
2) Many people want a "quick-fix". They are not patient enough to dig through reviews, forum comments, etc to find out what is best for them based on requirements and budgets. They are looking for one description or one forum recommendation that stands out and screams, "this one is for you."
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But the products today are so good, probably no matter what line you pick, you will get great results. Some of what I was observing last night and have observed before is a lack of understanding of the basic concepts, which I think sometimes gets lost in the sea of products.

Desertnate said:
I personally don't mind the huge variety. In fact, I like all the options. Of course, I'm also the type of guy who will spend a week researching something simple like car shampoo. Sigh...
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Yeah, tell me about it. I'm wrapped up in a wheel thing right now and I want to shoot myself.


Desertnate said:
With the massive expansion of products the one thing I'd like to see is offerings of smaller containers for products. It's hard for those of those small business/weekend warrior types to find something we really like when each thing we try takes years to consume. 6oz bottles would be great.
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Optimum has been really good about putting most of their products in 4oz and 8oz bottles which addresses that issue. Of course the price point at that size isn't great. There are a lot of sample sizes available (and some for free with your order) in the PBMG brands, and there used to be some other brands too, but those seem to be gone now.
 
As a new(er) member, I completely agree. Where to start, and with what is mind numbing. It is very difficult to figure out where to start, and even though AG has videos, etc, its very difficult to get beyond the "2 bucket wash, use microfibers, buy a DA, pads and products" stage. I can appreciate AG not 'taking sides' in suggesting products or product lines. But frankly, the forum doesn't really help that much. A poster asks for where to start, and gets suggestions that range from helpful to 'are you freaking kidding'. Somebody who is polishing by hand is told to go out and buy a Rupes. Or that they should go with a $60 per oz coating. It just doesn't make sense. I guess I say this because I found 'learning by doing' was the most critical part of this. You can't appreciate a DA until you polish by hand, and you can't appreciate a higher end DA until you use a PC for a while. Likewise, trying different pads doesn't help until you experience the basic stuff first.

Anyway, perhaps this forum can help: we can create a table of 'basic', 'intermediate' and 'advanced' categories, that include products or perhaps even lines. Everyone should start with 'basic', and grow from there.

For example, a new user should start with say Meguirs Gold wash, TRC or AG microfiber 16x16 and a drying towel, a PC, flat pads in 3 colors, Ultimate Compound, Polish and Wax. Similar lines from 3D, Mothers, Klasse, etc can be rated basic. From there, add 'intermediate' products like wheel wash, trim restorer, headlight cleaner, or perhaps whole lines like Wolfgang. Anyway, this would be very helpful, give folks a place to start, and put it all in context.

The truth of the matter is that there is very little difference among the products: they all perform. There are some differences in benefits and characteristics that many appreciate, but they all with perfect paint and shine the car.
 
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