In Love with the 3401 again

The Critic said:
Honestly, I am quite certain that I could have achieved the same results with the 21. Finishing is going to be very dependent upon residue control, machine speed, pad used, arm speed and pressure.

What speed were you using on the 21, and with what arm speed? How long did you work it for? Did you blow out the pad after a few passes?

For most people, the 3401 will "seem" to have better power, but the 21 is every bit (and actually more) powerful.

The learning curve is steep with the 21. Most beginner to intermediate users who reach for the 3401 will probably get better results at first. But if you take the time to understand how to fully utilize the capabilities of the 21, you will find it to be a very versatile tool.
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By no means I am saying the Rupes is under-powered. I find I could do in one step with the Rupes that normally would take multiple steps with other machines (ie, Rotary then follow by a DA). But then....the same could be said for the Flex.

The polishing experience is where the Rupes wins out. I don't feel as beat up after putting a full day in with the Rupes than the Flex. This is why the Flex has been side lined in my case.

I was on speed 4.5 doing about 1.5 inch per sec. Did 7 section passes with a working area about 1.5 sq ft. I was using the Rupes white finishing pad. I had about 8-10 lbs of downward pressure on the first few passes and only the weight of the machine on the last 2. I also tried a higher speed with only the weight of the machine for 5 section passes. I then swap the Rupes pad with a black hybrid finishing pad and tried for the third and last time. For some strange reasons... a slight DA hazing occurs on all three test panels. I came to the conclusion that it might be the surface i was working on didn't like the action of the Rupes. Feed back please
 
psnt1ol said:
I was on speed 4.5 doing about 1.5 inch per sec. Did 7 section passes with a working area about 1.5 sq ft. I was using the Rupes white finishing pad. I had about 8-10 lbs of downward pressure on the first few passes and only the weight of the machine on the last 2. I also tried a higher speed with only the weight of the machine for 5 section passes. I then swap the Rupes pad with a black hybrid finishing pad and tried for the third and last time. For some strange reasons... a slight DA hazing occurs on all three test panels. I came to the conclusion that it might be the surface i was working on didn't like the action of the Rupes. Feed back please
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Stiffer pads seem to finish a bit better in some situations, and especially on the Rupes 21. The large-throw has something to do with this. Try a stiffer pad, such as a Rupes yellow. I've come across situations in the past, where I was getting hazing with a Rupes white pad that was instantly cured upon switching to a Rupes yellow.

You did not mention what kind of paint this is, but 7 passes is a lot for finishing. If you are using the correct amount of Reflect with the proper arm speed, it usually breaks down within 3-4 passes. Try using less product (2-3 pea-sized drops) and slowing down your arm speed to about an inch per sec and decreasing your work area.

Lastly, and most importantly, drop down to speed 3. We discussed polisher speed during the NXT class and almost everyone in the room rarely went above speed 4 on their 21, even for heavy compounding. I usually stay between 3-3.5 on my 21; I have found that any speed higher than that only brings minuscule increases in cut, but also at the expense of significantly more haze and heat.
 
Thanks for the tips. :dblthumb2:

Come to think of it....you are right regarding the use of the yellow pad. I don't recall having to do a second step after...ever. Its sort of counter intuitive....:xyxthumbs:

I was working on everyone's favorite Jet Black BMW. The first 7 passes were done after the pad was initially primed. It took less passes to break down after.

BTW... its nice to see another Bay Area member on here.
 
the flex is still my favorite by far. I still use a dewalt on gel coat boats to compound but always polish and finish with the flex. On cars I use the flex for everything.
 
Just02896 said:
Yep,
Flex = V8
Rupes = 4 cylinder turbo!
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ROFL!!! Different tools for different jobs. The more tools you have the more practice you have the more fun you will have. I haven't fallen out of love with my Rupes since getting the Flex but did relinquished my GG6 to a dedicated 3" set up.
 
Avid Flex user here as well.............:dblthumb2:

Flex 3401
Flex PE14-2
 
I use my pe14 and 3401 for everything I do. My PC and Dewalt are collecting dust. They're just great tools hands down and money well spent. And money maker!
 
mg6045 said:
When it comes to all out correction with a DA, nothing is more powerful or as fast as the FLEX. Their has yet to be a replacement.
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Same polish, pad, and paint on a FLAT panel, the Rupes 21 will out cut the 3401.
 
I recently changed from the PC to the Flex 3401 VRG albeit with some reservation from reading about the learning curve. All that I can say is WOW. It corrects so fast and isn't at all difficult to handle as long as one keeps the pad in parallel to the panel.

I haven't used microfiber pads yet as my foam pads and polishes have worked so well out of the box. Therefore I haven't yet stopped liking it. In the interest of full disclosure, my vehicles are trucks and SUVs with relatively large and flat panels, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it on anything. I'd just pick smaller backing plates and pads for more "curvy" sections.

Still use the PC for wax applications and showing my friends and neighbors how to safely use machines on their paint.


I'm not knocking Rupes as they have an excellent reputation and I have never used one. As the master has said........find something you really like and use it often.........'nuff said. :)
 
ZL1 Mark said:
Same polish, pad, and paint on a FLAT panel, the Rupes 21 will out cut the 3401.
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Mark, I respectfully disagree completely. Take a scratched panel and use a TB black wool pad + M105 and compare 3401 to the 21. The Flex wins hands down.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
 
richy said:
Mark, I respectfully disagree completely. Take a scratched panel and use a TB black wool pad + M105 and compare 3401 to the 21. The Flex wins hands down.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
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richy, you've definitely peaked my interest on those TB wool pads. i haven't had to use anything more aggressive than mf/surbuf pads, but then again i don't do as many cars as you. i'll have to order a few the next time i do an order (have to decide between the 5" or 6"), keep up the great work... :dblthumb2:
 
richy said:
Mark, I respectfully disagree completely. Take a scratched panel and use a TB black wool pad + M105 and compare 3401 to the 21. The Flex wins hands down.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
:dblthumb2:
 
VISITOR said:
richy, you've definitely peaked my interest on those TB wool pads. i haven't had to use anything more aggressive than mf/surbuf pads, but then again i don't do as many cars as you. i'll have to order a few the next time i do an order (have to decide between the 5" or 6"), keep up the great work... :dblthumb2:
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I promise you (and I don't say that lightly) that they will blow you away. Blow it out with compressed air after each use (pass). I use the 5" ones. Don't use much product and work it longer than you think you should. Then you'll see how it finishes down. I did do a YT vid on that too showing what I just said.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
 
VISITOR said:
richy, you've definitely peaked my interest on those TB wool pads. i haven't had to use anything more aggressive than mf/surbuf pads, but then again i don't do as many cars as you. i'll have to order a few the next time i do an order (have to decide between the 5" or 6"), keep up the great work... :dblthumb2:
Click to expand...


I promise you (and I don't say that lightly) that they will blow you away. Blow it out with compressed air after each use (pass). I use the 5" ones. Don't use much product and work it longer than you think you should. Then you'll see how it finishes down. I did do a YT vid on that too showing what I just said.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
 
richy said:
I promise you (and I don't say that lightly) that they will blow you away. Blow it out with compressed air after each use (pass). I use the 5" ones. Don't use much product and work it longer than you think you should. Then you'll see how it finishes down. I did do a YT vid on that too showing what I just said.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks..... I am going to pick some up.
 
I think I am now more convinced to get the Flex. Initally, I was all Rupes but proprietary pads are rare (to non-existing) in my place.
 
daimler said:
I think I am now more convinced to get the Flex. Initally, I was all Rupes but proprietary pads are rare (to non-existing) in my place.
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there isn't much it can't do and with the variety of backing plates and pads make it even more versatile. just think with the never ending technology in new polishes/compounds/pads these days and in the future, who knows what would make it even more useful and easier to use to remove defects. it's exciting to see what the future holds for products than can be used with the DA! :props:
 
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