How do I improve my lighting??

[Kristopher1129]

Hey, guys. I'm not sure how many of you have a shop...but I'm sure a lot of you have a garage, or something of the sort.

I want to heavily improve the lighting in my shop. Right now, I've got fluorescents on the ceiling, as well as along the wall. Probably about 6 covering 3 bays on the ceiling, and another 6 on the walls. You can see them in my profile picture on the ceiling behind me.

I obviously know there are ways to improve the reflection of the light, which I feel is the problem. My floor is just plain cement, and my walls and ceiling are just beams, insulation, and plastic. The walls and ceiling look like an unfinished project.

So, here's the main issue. I was going to drywall, and paint the walls white. But, that's gonna be a TON of work with all the wiring, and other things on the wall and ceiling.

I'm thinking about using reflective metallic insulation foil. One side is white, and one side is metallic. Which side do you think would be better? White, or metallic? Bear in mind I have no air conditioning. I'm afraid the metallic side is gonna really heat the place up in the summer. What do you think?

I also would like to paint the floor with a bright textured paint.

P.S. Hey, Mike...I think an AG banner would really help brighten my place up. If ya know what I mean, ha.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I'd go for white over the metallic -- I would be afraid that the metallic side would bounce off strange reflections of the vehicles/people/etc. in the shop and make it harder to see defects as you're working, whereas a white surface is just going to reflect light and not pick up reflections from any other source.

What sort of fixtures do you currently run? T12s, or something else? I found that just retrofitting all my fixtures to T8HO electronic ballasts and good tubes with a decent CRI and good color temperature made a massive difference all by itself.

 

[Kristopher1129]

I'd go for white over the metallic -- I would be afraid that the metallic side would bounce off strange reflections of the vehicles/people/etc. in the shop and make it harder to see defects as you're working, whereas a white surface is just going to reflect light and not pick up reflections from any other source.

What sort of fixtures do you currently run? T12s, or something else? I found that just retrofitting all my fixtures to T8HO electronic ballasts and good tubes with a decent CRI and good color temperature made a massive difference all by itself.

I was thinking the same thing. The metallic side worries me. I feel like it would be disappointing once I got it up there. I think you're right...white would be much safer.

Honestly, I don't even know what's up there. They've been there for years though, I can tell you that, ha.

I definitely need to replace the fixtures cause they have no shields. It's just straight bulbs, which really sucks. I was thinking of buying these....

Shop Utilitech 48" 2-Light Utility Fluorescent Shoplight at Lowes.com

They're cheap, and I think would improve my lighting like crazy.

What do you think about the textured floor paint??

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

What sort of fixtures do you currently run? T12s, or something else? I found that just retrofitting all my fixtures to T8HO electronic ballasts and good tubes with a decent CRI and good color temperature made a massive difference all by itself.

:laughing:








You're one smart cookie! :dblthumb2:

 

[Bunky]

What sort of fixtures do you currently run? T12s, or something else? I found that just retrofitting all my fixtures to T8HO electronic ballasts and good tubes with a decent CRI and good color temperature made a massive difference all by itself.

I had some lighting in my new garage and noticed they were all T12. I was irked that they would use them given T8. Can you convert T12's to T8's?

 

[Stittville Ed]

I had some lighting in my new garage and noticed they were all T12. I was irked that they would use them given T8. Can you convert T12's to T8's?

You need to replace the ballast with T8 ballast.
Easy job and I find ballast on line very cheap.

 

[Stittville Ed]

The color or Kelvin number is key.
The higher the number the better the light or closer to Daylight it is.

 

[Stittville Ed]

I definitely need to replace the fixtures cause they have no shields. It's just straight bulbs, which really sucks. I was thinking of buying these....

Shop Utilitech 48" 2-Light Utility Fluorescent Shoplight at Lowes.com

They're cheap, and I think would improve my lighting like crazy.

For a few dollars more you can get twice the fixture from a electrical supply house and pick up a better lamp than Lowes or Home Cheapo carry

 

[rwright]

:laughing:








You're one smart cookie! :dblthumb2:

Charlie has helped me more than you could imagine. We bounced ideas off each other over lighting through several pm's. The only problem now is that I have 2 cars to fix instead of finishing my garage.

I was speaking to an electric supply company and the gentleman stated pretty much the same thing Charlie did, if you're looking for a brighter light you need to go for a higher CRI rating. The T8HO tubes I plan to go with have a CRI rating of 96 and run $16 each. This may not be the most budget friendly for you Kris but will give you tons of light. If this type of setup is not in your budget, then maybe go with the white walls and highly reflective light fixtures.

 

[cutter]

Charlie has helped me more than you could imagine. We bounced ideas off each other over lighting through several pm's. The only problem now is that I have 2 cars to fix instead of finishing my garage.

I was speaking to an electric supply company and the gentleman stated pretty much the same thing Charlie did, if you're looking for a brighter light you need to go for a higher CRI rating. The T8HO tubes I plan to go with have a CRI rating of 96 and run $16 each. This may not be the most budget friendly for you Kris but will give you tons of light. If this type of setup is not in your budget, then maybe go with the white walls and highly reflective light fixtures.

This post is most helpful...Thank you for the explanation of the higher CRI rating.

I'm subscribed!

 

[rwright]

This post is most helpful...Thank you for the explanation of the higher CRI rating.

I'm subscribed!

I can't take credit for this, Charlie - Shiny lil Dtlr helped out tremendously. I took a lot of his suggestions to my local electrical supply company for additional help. That's what is great about this place, lots of helpful people :dblthumb2:.

 

[Kristopher1129]

Charlie has helped me more than you could imagine. We bounced ideas off each other over lighting through several pm's. The only problem now is that I have 2 cars to fix instead of finishing my garage.

I was speaking to an electric supply company and the gentleman stated pretty much the same thing Charlie did, if you're looking for a brighter light you need to go for a higher CRI rating. The T8HO tubes I plan to go with have a CRI rating of 96 and run $16 each. This may not be the most budget friendly for you Kris but will give you tons of light. If this type of setup is not in your budget, then maybe go with the white walls and highly reflective light fixtures.

The budget isn't really an issue. I just want good lighting. $16 a bulb would be fine with me as long is it brightens my place up. It's like a cave in there sometimes, ha.

I wanna do the white walls, painted floor, and some good fixtures and bulbs. I don't know a whole lot about CRI ratings and such....but I got a decent idea now that you guys brought it up, ha. :dblthumb2:

 

[Kristopher1129]

I can't take credit for this, Charlie - Shiny lil Dtlr helped out tremendously. I took a lot of his suggestions to my local electrical supply company for additional help. That's what is great about this place, lots of helpful people :dblthumb2:.

Agreed! I get more help here than anywhere else.

 

[Hoytman]

Charlie,

These are the brightest 4' T8 bulbs I've found and I use them
Shop GE 2-Pack 32-Watt T8 48" Fluorescent Light Bulb at Lowes.com to grow tomatoes and peppers in my garage each spring. I grow them to sell for spare cash. I usually grow about 2000 plants in a 4X4 area, until they reach 2 inches tall. Of course, as they get bigger they go to another section of the garage. These bulbs have been the absolute brightest of what I could find a Lowe's. Perhaps there are others that offer more light but I haven't been able to locate them.

The second brightest I've found at Lowe's are these Shop GE 2-Pack 32-Watt T8 48" Fluorescent Light Bulb at Lowes.com.

That said, I tried each of them side-by-side with grow lights. All I can say is don't waste the money on the grow lights as they are a gimmick. They supposed to produce light of a different spectrum, but I can tell you after growing plants under the daylight bulbs above the plants much prefer the daylight over the sunshine or the grow bulbs. I've even bought high dollar grow bulbs from plant catalogs and they don't compare.

That said, the numbers of my daylight bulbs don't compare to the numbers of the bulb you mentioned. If I can find them I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison of the HO you mentioned to the daylight bulbs I'm using. The daylight is a much brighter and more white light than the sunshine bulb, and the plants seem to like it better by alot...becuase they're almost like real daylight. They burn cool as well. I love them.

 

[master detailer]

my frist shop was like yours is now. What i did was take shrink wrap and put it up on the walls.Was real easy to use and you can cut the holes out after its up to get to your out lets and lights. cost was like less then 100.00 and man did it help.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

I definitely need to replace the fixtures cause they have no shields. It's just straight bulbs, which really sucks. I was thinking of buying these....

Shop Utilitech 48" 2-Light Utility Fluorescent Shoplight at Lowes.com

If you've already got standard 4' or 8' T12 fixtures, which is what I'm assuming you have, it's far cheaper to just swap out the ballasts and install new lamps. That's what I did with all my existing fixtures and it only cost $15 per ballast, as opposed to $40-50 for an entirely new fixture.

As to your point about not having reflectors behind the lamps, I haven't found that to be an issue in my shop. The ceiling is painted pure semi-gloss white and it reflects the light just great. I also have a few with reflectors and the output isn't really any different. rops:

What do you think about the textured floor paint??

Are you talking about the epoxy with a non-skid additive? I've got some of that in my equipment storage area and it works really well. In my working shop I just ordered RaceDeck tiles to install there instead. I like the idea of a floating floor that I can clean and service easily as needed.

:laughing:

You're one smart cookie! :dblthumb2:

:laughing: Thanks, Mark.

I had some lighting in my new garage and noticed they were all T12. I was irked that they would use them given T8. Can you convert T12's to T8's?

Luckily the fixtures and even the receptacles are interchangeable... like Ed says below all you need are ballasts.

You need to replace the ballast with T8 ballast.
Easy job and I find ballast on line very cheap.

rops:

Charlie has helped me more than you could imagine. We bounced ideas off each other over lighting through several pm's. The only problem now is that I have 2 cars to fix instead of finishing my garage.

I was speaking to an electric supply company and the gentleman stated pretty much the same thing Charlie did, if you're looking for a brighter light you need to go for a higher CRI rating. The T8HO tubes I plan to go with have a CRI rating of 96 and run $16 each. This may not be the most budget friendly for you Kris but will give you tons of light. If this type of setup is not in your budget, then maybe go with the white walls and highly reflective light fixtures.

Thanks Richard. You're absolutely correct about the CRI, the higher the better. I used lamps from Home Depot with a CRI rating of 85 that I've been very happy with, but if you can afford it the CRI 96 lamps your contractor pointed you toward are likely an even better choice.

Think of it this way: the bulb in a 3M Sun Gun is CRI 99, and we all know how bright those are/how well they show defects. Getting as close to that level as possible with fluorescents has to be a good thing.

Charlie,

These are the brightest 4' T8 bulbs I've found and I use them
Shop GE 2-Pack 32-Watt T8 48" Fluorescent Light Bulb at Lowes.com to grow tomatoes and peppers in my garage each spring. I grow them to sell for spare cash. I usually grow about 2000 plants in a 4X4 area, until they reach 2 inches tall. Of course, as they get bigger they go to another section of the garage. These bulbs have been the absolute brightest of what I could find a Lowe's. Perhaps there are others that offer more light but I haven't been able to locate them.

The second brightest I've found at Lowe's are these Shop GE 2-Pack 32-Watt T8 48" Fluorescent Light Bulb at Lowes.com.

That said, I tried each of them side-by-side with grow lights. All I can say is don't waste the money on the grow lights as they are a gimmick. They supposed to produce light of a different spectrum, but I can tell you after growing plants under the daylight bulbs above the plants much prefer the daylight over the sunshine or the grow bulbs. I've even bought high dollar grow bulbs from plant catalogs and they don't compare.

That said, the numbers of my daylight bulbs don't compare to the numbers of the bulb you mentioned. If I can find them I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison of the HO you mentioned to the daylight bulbs I'm using. The daylight is a much brighter and more white light than the sunshine bulb, and the plants seem to like it better by alot...becuase they're almost like real daylight. They burn cool as well. I love them.

Good info, Bill! Just for sake of comparison here's the specs on the Phillips lamps I use:

I wonder what all the "Hydroponics" shops that have opened around here (Medical Marijuana... ugh :rant: ) would have to say about your assessment of grow lights :laughing:

my frist shop was like yours is now. What i did was take shrink wrap and put it up on the walls.Was real easy to use and you can cut the holes out after its up to get to your out lets and lights. cost was like less then 100.00 and man did it help.

I'm willing to bet that wouldn't satisfy the fire code though....

 

[Hoytman]

If you noticed, the light output and the color rendering is lower on the sunlight bulb in the link than on the daylight bulb.

Also the daylight bulb that I'm using, the color rendering, and light output is also lower than the Phillips bulb you're using. However, the GE Daylight bulb and the Phillips bulb shown have a color temperture of 6500k. I think that Phillips bulb may be a tad better than my GE bulbs based on all the numbers being a tad higher.

Based on the bulbs I've tried and the Phillips box pictured (this is not in argument against Charlie, as I just noticed it)it seems that the color temperature has more has more to do with how bright the light is. When I first bought them I purchased them based on the name Daylight and Sunlight. Up until this posting I never noticed the cri number, or other numbers. That is I never really paid attention to it. When you mentioned the HO bulb with high cri it peaked my curiosity, so I went and looked at my bulbs. For comparison, and I just noticed this, take a look at this office bulb with the exact cri as the daylight bulb I use...
Shop GE 2-Pack 32-Watt T8 48" Fluorescent Light Bulb at Lowes.com ..which is nowhere near as bright as that Phillips bulb or the GE Daylight and Sunlight bulbs.

This thread has been interesting and has caused me to notice some things I wasn't aware of. It would appear that the higher the lumens, cri, and color temp; all play a factor in how bright the light will be. I wonder how high the lumens and the color temp is on those HO 96cri bulbs? Those things would be sweet. It would be like having your own sun in your garage ha ha.


I'm using $9 4' fixtures from wal-mart, the kind you plug in. I replaced the T12's in them without any issues and I'm using the T8 bulbs burning them 20 hours a day, 7 days a week during the months from mid Jan to mid May. I'd burn T5's if I could find them four feet long.

I'm not sure if my fixtures have replacable balasts or not, or even if they have a balast in them. I know some do because I've replaced them. Surely mine do have a balast, but I've never really looked. I would like to upgrade to a more quality fixture at some point though.

 

[rwright]

I will tell you this much, you need HO fixtures to use the HO tubes. The fixtures I'm looking at run $45-$48 each and the tubes run $16 each from my local supplier. The 96 CRI tubes are made by Phillips and are the brightest fluorescents he can obtain. There are other options such as HID but that may not be cost effective for Kris. Charlie did mention that the reflective backing didn't help, but a visit to my local Home Depot was saying otherwise! They had on display a triple tube fixture with standard T8 tubes and it hurt my eyes to look at it!

Kris, a recent visit with my buddy Detail Dave down in Charlotte yielded something pretty cool, a home made portable light cart. He mounted 2 fluorescent fixtures to a rolling box shaped cart. You may want your brightest lights on something like this for corrections. Just a thought.


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- Sent using Tapatalk

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Based on the bulbs I've tried and the Phillips box pictured (this is not in argument against Charlie, as I just noticed it)it seems that the color temperature has more has more to do with how bright the light is. When I first bought them I purchased them based on the name Daylight and Sunlight. Up until this posting I never noticed the cri number, or other numbers. That is I never really paid attention to it. When you mentioned the HO bulb with high cri it peaked my curiosity, so I went and looked at my bulbs. For comparison, and I just noticed this, take a look at this office bulb with the exact cri as the daylight bulb I use...
Shop GE 2-Pack 32-Watt T8 48" Fluorescent Light Bulb at Lowes.com ..which is nowhere near as bright as that Phillips bulb or the GE Daylight and Sunlight bulbs.

This thread has been interesting and has caused me to notice some things I wasn't aware of. It would appear that the higher the lumens, cri, and color temp; all play a factor in how bright the light will be. I wonder how high the lumens and the color temp is on those HO 96cri bulbs? Those things would be sweet. It would be like having your own sun in your garage ha ha.

Bill, while we're at it let's look at what these different statistics represent when it comes to lighting effectiveness:

Lumens:

A lumen is a unit of standard measurement used to describe how much light is contained in a certain area. The lumen is part of a group of standard measurements known as the photometry group, which measure different aspects of light. This group also includes such units as the candela, which measures luminance, and the lux, which measures illuminance.

For example, a normal 100 watt light-bulb has a luminous efficiency of about 17.5, emitting 1750 lumens of light. A 13 watt fluorescent bulb, by contrast, has an efficiency of about 56, emitting around 730 lumens of light. The sun, in contrast, has an efficiency of around 93

What is a Lumen?

Color Rendering Index:

The Color Rendering Index (CRI) (sometimes called Color Rendition Index), is a measure of the ability of a light source to reproduce the colors of various objects being lit by the source. It is a method devised by the International Commission on Illumination (CIE). The best possible rendition of colors is specified by a CRI of one hundred, while the very poorest rendition is specified by a CRI of zero. For a source like a low-pressure sodium vapor lamp, which is monochromatic, the CRI is nearly zero, but for a source like an incandescent light bulb, which emits essentially black body radiation, it is nearly one hundred. The CRI is measured by comparing the color rendering of the test source to that of a "perfect" source which is generally a black body radiator, except for sources with color temperatures above 5000K, in which case a simulated daylight (e.g. D65) is used. For example, a standard "cool white" fluorescent lamp will have a CRI near 63. Newer "triphosphor" fluorescent lamps often claim a CRI of 80 to 90.

Color Rendering Index - encyclopedia article about Color Rendering Index.

Color Temperature:

Color temperature is a characteristic of visible light that has important applications in lighting, photography, videography, publishing, manufacturing, astrophysics, and other fields. The color temperature of a light source is the temperature of an ideal black-body radiator that radiates light of comparable hue to that of the light source. Color temperature is conventionally stated in the unit of absolute temperature, the kelvin, having the unit symbol K.

As the Sun crosses the sky, it may appear to be red, orange, yellow or white depending on its position. The changing color of the sun over the course of the day is mainly a result of scattering of light, and is not due to changes in black-body radiation. The blue color of the sky is caused by Rayleigh scattering of the sunlight from the atmosphere, which tends to scatter blue light more than red light.

Daylight has a spectrum similar to that of a black body with a correlated color temperature of 6,500 K (D65 viewing standard) or 5,500 K (daylight-balanced photographic film standard).

For lighting building interiors, it is often important to take into account the color temperature of illumination. For example, a warmer (i.e., lower color temperature) light is often used in public areas to promote relaxation, while a cooler (higher color temperature) light is used to enhance concentration in offices.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So what does this tell us?

In the context of detailing and working with paint under artificial lighting, we are concerned about several aspects of the lighting source(s) used.

When deciding how to lay out and orient lighting in a shop as well as determining how many fixtures and lamps you need it is important to account for how many lumens each lamp is outputting and how that light is dispersed. This will help to ensure that the total output is "bright enough" to provide general task lighting when a vehicle is in the shop. It is also important to recognize how the color of the walls, floor, and even the vehicle being worked on will affect the necessary lumens to provide task lighting. Dark walls or flooring will absorb more lighting than they reflect, just as working on a dark colored vehicle will make your shop environment appear darker than it will while working on a light colored vehicle.

Next on the list is color temperature. For the best representation of what a vehicle is going to look like under direct sunlight, it is best to choose a lamp which closely approximates the color output of the sun -- usually a 5000K or even more ideally a 6500K lamp. Typically a lower or "warmer" temperature light will not be as "bright" to the perception of the eye because it is unnatural; on the other hand while some may feel a higher/cooler temperature is too harsh, it is also "brighter" because of its similarity to natural sunlight.

Finally, the CRI must be considered. The higher the CRI rating of a bulb, the more natural (again, natural light is the gold standard for "brightness") it will appear. Even a 6500K bulb, while similar in temperature to natural sunlight, can look unnatural if it has a low CRI.

I won't even begin to pretend that I'm any sort of expert in this area; all I can speak from is my own experience with choosing lighting for my shop and researching the available options.

I'm using $9 4' fixtures from wal-mart, the kind you plug in. I replaced the T12's in them without any issues and I'm using the T8 bulbs burning them 20 hours a day, 7 days a week during the months from mid Jan to mid May. I'd burn T5's if I could find them four feet long.

They make 4' T5s -- I have some, but they require a different ballast and socket than T8/T12s.

There are ballasts available which can run either T8 or T12 lamps successfully, but it is always best to match the ballast to the lamp being used to ensure optimum efficiency and lamp output performance.

I'm not sure if my fixtures have replacable balasts or not, or even if they have a balast in them. I know some do because I've replaced them. Surely mine do have a balast, but I've never really looked. I would like to upgrade to a more quality fixture at some point though.

Purely by nature all Fluorescent fixtures will have a ballast. As for whether that ballast is easily replaceable or not, it probably depends on the fixture. I've never personally come across one that wasn't serviceable.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

Charlie did mention that the reflective backing didn't help, but a visit to my local Home Depot was saying otherwise! They had on display a triple tube fixture with standard T8 tubes and it hurt my eyes to look at it!

Well, to be fair I did say it doesn't seem to help in my case because the ceiling itself works well as a reflective surface.... but if your situation does not allow for that a fixture with a reflector is probably a good idea. :xyxthumbs:

My impression of what Kris wants to do would leave him with a white reflective ceiling in his shop as well.

Kris, a recent visit with my buddy Detail Dave down in Charlotte yielded something pretty cool, a home made portable light cart. He mounted 2 fluorescent fixtures to a rolling box shaped cart. You may want your brightest lights on something like this for corrections. Just a thought.

That really is an excellent tip. Sounds similar to what I shared with you that I've been using by temporarily mounting a fixture on my inventory shelving.