D114 dilution ratio - please confirm.

Eldorado2k said:
I use it @1:128 for claylube.
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Agreed, D114 has enough lubricity that 1:128 is sufficient for almost every task. I clay using D114 in a 1:128 and it works wonderfully. I have a 5 Gal drum pre-mixed in that dilution ratio.

128:1 will remove wax & polish residue from seems, cracks, crevasses. I also use it as a wipe-down after compounding the car, removes all the dust... If I created dilutions for every scenario with every product, in the quantity I required, my $$$ per car would go through the roof, along with requiring the proper storage space... :-)

(KISS) Keep it simple Simon!!!

Your car, (i take it's a DD) was washed, clayed, spot-buffed, polished, then wax was applied. At this point, you should just be doing gentle washes (you could use D114) and then apply more wax. You could even get away with a great QD. There is no reason to strip wax before applying more.

The only time you would want to strip the car is if you decided on doing a coating (i.e. CQUK, PBL DC, McKee's, Opit, etc..). In that case, just use Car Pro Eraser or PBL Surface Prep.

Claying a car should be a process before a compound or polish, as claying will most certainly cause some form of marring or scratching. If you don't plan on polishing, don't clay.

The idea of clay is to mechanically remove all surface contaminants as a preparation step for compounding (defect removal) and LSP. The "smoothness" is what allows the compound / polish to work directly on the defects without a layer of contamination between. Once the car is compounded, now the surface is fully prepped for LSP to bond with the paint.

So to answer your original question, I think you will find 1:128, or 1:256 sufficient for most tasks. Decreasing dilution may get you results quicker, but you'll also be blowing through more product, and mileage may vary... Especially when there are dedicated products for what you are trying to accomplish.

Hope this helps.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Yeah, so would I (depending) but he's already put UW on top of 476S, and plus it doesn't really sound like he's equipped/prepared for that...since he just took the car to a detailer a month ago.

If it's a typical "detailer" who knows what the prep was, just claying might make a world of difference.
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Just caught this. Do you mean that because I put Ultimate Quik Wax on after a wash, I'm not really putting the same type of LSP on when I apply 476S, hense I need to strip all LSP off?

So basically if I didn't put UQW, I could just wash, clay then reapply 476S?
 
paul_g said:
Agreed, D114 has enough lubricity that 1:128 is sufficient for almost every task. I clay using D114 in a 1:128 and it works wonderfully. I have a 5 Gal drum pre-mixed in that dilution ratio.

128:1 will remove wax & polish residue from seems, cracks, crevasses. I also use it as a wipe-down after compounding the car, removes all the dust... If I created dilutions for every scenario with every product, in the quantity I required, my $$$ per car would go through the roof, along with requiring the proper storage space... :-)

(KISS) Keep it simple Simon!!!

Your car, (i take it's a DD) was washed, clayed, spot-buffed, polished, then wax was applied. At this point, you should just be doing gentle washes (you could use D114) and then apply more wax. You could even get away with a great QD. There is no reason to strip wax before applying more.

The only time you would want to strip the car is if you decided on doing a coating (i.e. CQUK, PBL DC, McKee's, Opit, etc..). In that case, just use Car Pro Eraser or PBL Surface Prep.

Claying a car should be a process before a compound or polish, as claying will most certainly cause some form of marring or scratching. If you don't plan on polishing, don't clay.

The idea of clay is to mechanically remove all surface contaminants as a preparation step for compounding (defect removal) and LSP. The "smoothness" is what allows the compound / polish to work directly on the defects without a layer of contamination between. Once the car is compounded, now the surface is fully prepped for LSP to bond with the paint.

So to answer your original question, I think you will find 1:128, or 1:256 sufficient for most tasks. Decreasing dilution may get you results quicker, but you'll also be blowing through more product, and mileage may vary... Especially when there are dedicated products for what you are trying to accomplish.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. And you're somewhat local to me, but I'm up in the Derry area often when the weather is nice I'm in Boston.

I agree that I will use more product if I use all types of different dilution ratios. This stuff is probably going to last me for years so I rather use more to get better results. I'm more afraid of not using enough of it and having most of it "expire".
 
What's the pH of D114 neat?

paul_g said:
Claying a car should be a process before a compound or polish, as claying will most certainly cause some form of marring or scratching. If you don't plan on polishing, don't clay.
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Couldn't agree more....on any color.

Also, 256:1 for clay lube.
 
SwiftTone said:
Just caught this. Do you mean that because I put Ultimate Quik Wax on after a wash, I'm not really putting the same type of LSP on when I apply 476S, hense I need to strip all LSP off?

So basically if I didn't put UQW, I could just wash, clay then reapply 476S?
Click to expand...

Oh, I thought you meant the liquid or paste Ultimate Wax. The UQW will probably be gone after a month of washes.

However, I myself don't get myself too exercised about the whole "stripping" thing. I would rather get a coat of fresh LSP on than delay it waiting until I have time to strip, etc. And besides, half of our members are putting down an LSP, then using a wash with a "different" wax/sealant component, then drying with a third brand spray wax, and next week using different products.

I think we like to concentrate on the differences between products when they're likely more alike than we'd like to admit.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Oh, I thought you meant the liquid or paste Ultimate Wax. The UQW will probably be gone after a month of washes.

However, I myself don't get myself too exercised about the whole "stripping" thing. I would rather get a coat of fresh LSP on than delay it waiting until I have time to strip, etc. And besides, half of our members are putting down an LSP, then using a wash with a "different" wax/sealant component, then drying with a third brand spray wax, and next week using different products.

I think we like to concentrate on the differences between products when they're likely more alike than we'd like to admit.
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Gotcha.

I guess what I am having trouble understanding is that if there is old LSP on their, the bond between the old LSP to the paint is probably weaker, therefore easier to "flake" off. If I lay fresh LSP on old LSP, when the old LSP "flakes" off it'll take the new LSP with it. Secondly, will LSP bond to another layer of LSP properly?

Another dumb question about dilution. If I am mixing a gallon of 128:1, and I'm using a gallon jug of store-bought distilled water, shouldn't I remove 1oz of water and put 1oz of D114 in? I know at this dilution it probably doesn't matter but If I am making a gallon of solution at say 12:1, I need to remove 10oz of water and replace it with 10oz of D114 right?
 
A lot of people think of a layer of LSP like a layer of paint, that is impermeable and prevents contact of whatever else you are applying to the actual car paint.

I think about it as a few molecules sitting on top of the paint, and there you are applying something with solvents and new LSP molecules and mechanical action...and what you end up with is likely some mix of the old LSP and the new. But I'm sure that view will get a lot of disagreement.

As far as the dilution, I wouldn't worry too much about an ounce of water, the 10 oz is probably important.
 
SwiftTone said:
Another dumb question about dilution. If I am mixing a gallon of 128:1, and I'm using a gallon jug of store-bought distilled water, shouldn't I remove 1oz of water and put 1oz of D114 in? I know at this dilution it probably doesn't matter but If I am making a gallon of solution at say 12:1, I need to remove 10oz of water and replace it with 10oz of D114 right?
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That's what I do. I remove an ounce and then add 1.
As far as mixing it @10:1, you'd want to remove 11.5 ounces, then add back 11.5 ounces of concentrate.
 
I am under the assumption that 128:1 means 128 oz with 1 oz.
Removing 1 oz would then be 127:1. Not much difference but if you think about it, with a 1:1 ratio you would not remove 1 oz because you would end up with pure product.
Look at a 32 oz bottle that has dilution ratios on it. 10:1 has you fill between the 2 oz and 3 oz line and then fill with water to the 32 oz line.
From wikapedia:
"In mathematics, a ratio is a relationship between two numbers indicating how many times the first number contains the second. For example, if a bowl of fruit contains eight oranges and six lemons, then the ratio of oranges to lemons is eight to six (that is, 8:6, which is equivalent to the ratio 4:3)"
 
bill110 said:
I am under the assumption that 128:1 means 128 oz with 1 oz.
Removing 1 oz would then be 127:1.
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Of course, that's right. What were we thinking! Of course, I'm going to go out on a limb as I did before and say that's no big deal, either way.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Of course, that's right. What were we thinking! Of course, I'm going to go out on a limb as I did before and say that's no big deal, either way.
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Yea at those dilution ratios if it was that important we would need to be chemists just to wash a car. It really only becomes more important at stronger mixes.
 
bill110 said:
I am under the assumption that 128:1 means 128 oz with 1 oz.
Removing 1 oz would then be 127:1
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No, actually that's wrong. Your definition of "127:1" is incorrect because the total #of ounces is not 127. The 1 is irrelevant on its own, it's the total # of 128 and the 1 makes it whole.

I hope that makes sense. If not, here's the calculated answer.

View attachment 42145
 
Eldorado2k said:
No, actually that's wrong. Your definition of "127:1" is incorrect because the total #of ounces is not 127. The 1 is irrelevant on its own, it's the total # of 128 and the 1 makes it whole.

I hope that makes sense. If not, here's the calculated answer.

View attachment 42145
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That chart isn't right. 128:1 would be 128 oz water and 1 oz of product. for a total of 129 ounces. Wouldn't make a difference with that quantity but at a 3:1 or 4:1 or so would make a huge difference
 
WaxMaster1 said:
That chart isn't right. 128:1 would be 128 oz water and 1 oz of product. for a total of 129 ounces. Wouldn't make a difference with that quantity but at a 3:1 or 4:1 or so would make a huge difference
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Ok, lets say you were to take a whole gallon of D108 Super Degreaser and want to mix the whole thing @ 4:1.
You'd take 128oz. of water x 4 = 512
Then add the gallon of D108 concentrate = 128
512 + 128 = 640oz. [5 gallons]

That's off the top of my head. Now lets see what the dilution calculator says.. Brb.
 
Eldorado2k said:
Ok, lets say you were to take a whole gallon of D108 Super Degreaser and want to mix the whole thing @ 4:1.
You'd take 128oz. of water x 4 = 512
Then add the gallon of D108 concentrate = 128
512 + 128 = 640oz. [5 gallons]

That's off the top of my head. Now lets see what the dilution calculator says.. Brb.
Click to expand...

gallon of degreaser plus 4 gallons of water
 
Eldorado2k said:
It looks right to me. Am I missing something?

View attachment 42146
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Eldo, where did you get the calc??
I like...

Nevermind: I found it... Googling for dilution calculator was difficult. Lots of scientific ML conversion stuff...
How I found, for those that want to try, is I actually googled using the key words of the calculator
"step 1 enter your container size in either ounces or milliliters; step 2 enter the dilution ratio"

which, tada, resulted in: Dilution Calculator

go figure.. :-)
 
bill110 said:
Yea at those dilution ratios if it was that important we would need to be chemists just to wash a car. It really only becomes more important at stronger mixes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that's part of the fun is we all get to play chemist. And we can't even agree what 128:1 means. Good thing I lose interest quickly these days.
 
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