Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

So what I'm hearing is the green CSS polishing pad is recommended for the AIO?\

Asking as someone who will do a one step on the wife's car, not as a pro getting paid for his services.
 
Belo said:
So what I'm hearing is the green CSS polishing pad is recommended for the AIO?\

Asking as someone who will do a one step on the wife's car, not as a pro getting paid for his services.
Click to expand...


I'd say that would be a good choice or a "good rule of thumb".

AT least it's a fairly safe pad to do you Test Spot with and then inspect the results to see how the paint is re-acting and from there you can move forward.


:)
 
Cruzscarwash said:
i 100% agree Mike, when i first started out a was a dollar chaser and id go after every penny i could, and i destroyed my body and my wallet barely grew from the after math.

no i fully understand and have no issues with the power of saying NO or turning away a job, even high paying jobs if i dont get a good feeling about the customer after talking with them about a potental job.

i think thats definaelty a lesson those looking to make this a businesses need to learn and accept in teh early stages for sure.
Click to expand...


Well said.

Thank you for sharing your real-world experience.


Just shared the link to this thread on the AG D101 FB Group. Not sure if those guys know the term,

Pad Haze


:)
 
Good read all the way throughout!


When I do an AIO job it is usually the 3401, Speed(now using BF One Step as my new Favorite) and the white LC Force Hybrid pads. (Love these pads but the white ones certainly hold water when cleaning differently than any other pad I have used. Kinda neat) It’s a pretty fool proof system for just about all paint types IME. I have learned thru the years that changing pads often will lead to much longer pad life in the long run. I have no problem using 10+ pads a vehicle. My cut rate never slows as the pad becomes wet and soggy with product if changed often.
 
Dr Oldz said:
Good read all the way throughout!
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim. I agree. Good questions and comments about the topic.


Dr Oldz said:
When I do an AIO job it is usually the 3401, Speed (now using BF One Step as my new Favorite) and the white LC Force Hybrid pads.
Click to expand...

That's my normal recipe for powering through a detail, and specifically for a lot of the car guys around here.


Dr Oldz said:
(Love these pads but the white ones certainly hold water when cleaning differently than any other pad I have used. Kinda neat)

Yes, the white Force Hybrid hold water, I think that's the "hybrid" part of this specific pad. The foam structure is part open cell and part closed cell. Closed cell pads hold liquids inside of them.

See my article here,

Open Cell Foam or Closed Cell Foam? - A simple test you can do to determine by blowing air into the pad



Dr Oldz said:
It’s a pretty fool proof system for just about all paint types IME.
Click to expand...

I agree. When I detail for money I tend to use the BEAST as I find the 8mm gear-driven rotation and oscillation enables me to correct, polish and seal paint as fast as humanly possible without making mistakes and while maintaining top quality.


Sometimes I show other tools in a write-up and when I do this it's catering to other people's budgets or preferences, Here's and example where I showed how to do one-step high quality production detailing to an old 2-door Chevy using the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher. I could have done it a LOT faster with the FLEX 3401 but I wanted to show a tool that the average person could afford that wasn't junk but also didn't cost $400.00+ dollars just for the tool. A person reading the below thread if they are NEW to machine polishing besides having to purchase the tool will also have to purchase pads, products and towels and the more pads the better for them and their time-efficiely as well as overall results.


Review: BLACKFIRE One-Step Cleaner/Wax by Mike Phillips

Note the tool and also note I show how many pads I used....


1971_ChevelleRestoRod_028.JPG




I count 8 pads. Down a ways in the thread I also show how many towels I used. When I take pictures like this it's to telegraph a message to people that it takes more than one pad to buff out a car and it takes more than one or two towels to wipe off product.




Dr Oldz said:
I have learned thru the years that changing pads often will lead to much longer pad life in the long run. I have no problem using 10+ pads a vehicle. My cut rate never slows as the pad becomes wet and soggy with product if changed often.
Click to expand...

Yeperdoo...

More pads are better!


:xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...
 
Mike Phillips said:
I too use LC orange foam cutting pads with one-step cleaner/waxes and sometimes you can get away with it but you won't know unless you inspect and if you really want to see what's going on at the surface level then chemically strip the paint and inspect with a SCANGRIP Sunmatch Swirl Finder Light or some other strong swirl finder light.

Also - When a foam "cutting" pad is clean and DRY it is its sharpest and this is when it is more likely to cut the paint and haze it. As you work around the car with the same pad the pad will become soggy or wet or saturated with product and the foam will become softer and broke-in. At this point you're probably using a pad closer to a "polishing" pad and no longer a "cutting" pad.

This is also where some seasoned detailers and also newbies get lucky because they don't have a lot of pads so they can switch out to a fresh DRY foam cutting pad for each panel. The lack of pads keeps them safe and they may read what I've written and think I don't know what I'm talking about. But I have the pad resources to switch over to a DRY foam "cutting" pad for each panel and I'm telling everyone, there is such a thing as pad haze and it can and will bit you in the behind some day.

:)
Click to expand...

Mike
Using a LC Orange per your comments above and need to keep changing them or else use LC White?
Which ‘orange’ pad version do you use most, I have the Force line but open to suggestions.

Thanks for your insight and coaching me through the learning curve.

Kirby
 
This is an excellent read, but my apologies, I missed the part where the pad recommendation was given. There are a few in here that got tossed into the mix. Is it the LC green or white pad that should be utilized for an AIO? I'm interested in utilizing McKee's 360 as my AIO and am interested in knowing what pad would be best paired with my GG6?
 
PSYS said:
This is an excellent read, but my apologies, I missed the part where the pad recommendation was given. There are a few in here that got tossed into the mix.

Is it the LC green or white pad that should be utilized for an AIO? I'm interested in utilizing McKee's 360 as my AIO and am interested in knowing what pad would be best paired with my GG6?
Click to expand...



Good question and the BIG PICTURE answer is simply stick with a foam polishing pad. If the company that makes the pad calls it a foam polishing pad then trust their judgment. If the pad is described as a foam cutting pad it can leave pad haze. If the pad is described as a foam finishing pad it may not do much for correcting any paint defects.

MOST important - do a TEST SPOT.

At the recent roadshow class I demonstrated pad haze n a black Yukon Denali using a foam cutting pad and BLACKFIRE One Step. The pad left the black paint hazy looking. I took a foam "polishing pad", the same product and buffed just a small strip inside the hazy area and a flawless finish was restored. This demonstrated to the class that just the CUT of a pad can cause haze.

Both the LC Green and White are polishing pads, my normal choice is the white foam polishing pads.



:)
 
@ Mike

I use a LOT of the LC White Forced Hybrid for the One Step AIO's

Does the White Forced Hybrid = HDO black pad?
 
100% agree on pad selection.

The other huge time waste I see way too often is guys topping the AIO. Almost always the protection is less than applying that same product on top of clean paint. Just use a good one step polish and then wax, seal or coat instead. Putting a durable product on top of a poor AIO will just make it not last as long.
 
I think someone else asked it earlier, but what LC foam pad is ideal for an AIO? There are multiple different LC foam pads. Which LC 'model' of the foam pad should be utilized? the CCS? the Hybrid? the Flat pads?
 
PSYS said:
I think someone else asked it earlier, but what LC foam pad is ideal for an AIO? There are multiple different LC foam pads. Which LC 'model' of the foam pad should be utilized? the CCS? the Hybrid? the Flat pads?
Click to expand...

The Flat Foam Pads or the ThinPros. I personally stay away from the Hybrids and CCS Pads. Hybrids tend to be preferred by people who use the Flex Polisher, which is forced rotation. And the CCS pads are a bit archaic.

I like to use the White Foam Polishing Pads for AIO’s. I like the Flat Foams for that duty.
 
PSYS said:
Which LC 'model' of the foam pad should be utilized? the CCS? the Hybrid? the Flat pads?
Click to expand...

Agree with Eldorado2k’s response above. The best pad choice is partly determined by which dual action polisher you’ll be using for the job.

You indicated you use a GG6. Stick with thin pads and you’ll experience less stalling when using this machine.
 
I’ve had good results with HD Speed/GG6/GG Fast finishing 5.5 MF red pads. I just did a 1st gen Honda Ridgeline with black paint and it came out nicely. It’s a hunting/woods truck most of the time and he ended up telling his wife his hunting season was over unless he took her minivan because it looked so good.

I can’t seem to get the pic to post in here. I can’t upload it or post the link method. I’m on the iPad.
 
Dr Oldz said:
I have learned from experience than a one step is an improvement and not perfection.

I feel, generally speaking, that most people prefer glossy with some swirls and RIDS Over a dullish looking finish.
Click to expand...

^^ this and I've configured my packages and presentation to that point.

  • Basic clean and protect- is just what you described. It's NOT a correction but rather a perfectly executed cleaning and refining type polish that will reduce the appearance of swirls through ramping up the gloss but it's not a correction.
  • Premium Enhancement Polish - is a minor correction and involves either a polish and sealant (AIO) or a polish and a seasonal coating like CanCoat. I offer the latter as a small upgrade charge. Aimed at 50% reduction/correction but upwards of 75%+ is common and easily achieved depending on what I get to work with finish wise.
  • Elite Enhancement Correction - is a true two-step correction process of compound and polish followed by a sealant or a coating; again at an upgrade charge for the latter. Aimed at 75% correction which is common but upwards of 90%+ is often achieved, again, depending on what the customer comes in with
  • Signature Level Perfection is what I call my 100% corrective process. As the name notes, it's a true multi-step full correction package.

No surprise that the first two packages are my most popular. I think the most important aspect is presenting them to the customer based on what they come in with and what they desire to leave with. I've had customers come in thinking a "detail" IS a Full Correction. That's fine as it may be at some shops, but with me, I offer pretty cost effective choices. I've also had the opposite that a basic clean and protect costs more than what customers are looking to pay. Some still think a detail is a wash and hand wax and that's it.
 
Just to chime in...

Great comments throughout the thread. The Big Picture I'm trying to share is be careful about using foam cutting pads as your default go-to pad when using any AIO and that is because sometimes the pad ALL BY ITSELF can leave PAD HAZE. Pad haze is micro-marring. It's where the pad itself is scratching the paint.

If you sell a one step process to a customer and use a foam cutting pad only to find out after doing the one step application of the AIO that now there is micro-marring throughout the paint - NOW you have to redo the entire car to remove the micro-marring and now you're no longer making a profit because now you're doing a two step process for a one step price.

For all the people that attended my Roadshow Class in Roswell, Georgia - they saw this first hand. Until you see it first hand you may doubt what I'm trying to share with this thread. But if you do enough one-step details using foam cutting pads sooner or later it's going to bite you in the behind and you're going to remember this article and think,

He was right


So anytime you're doing one-step detail jobs TRY to stick with foam polishing pads and START the business deal with the customer by setting their expectations REAL WORLD.

If the customer wants 100% correction that's fine. Make them pay for it. That's a 2-step or 3-step process not your 1-step process.

I see expertise the FB Group world all the time sharing how they use foam cutting pads with AIO's to maximize correction results and it's true, you will get more correction using an AIO with a foam CUTTING pad but you might also get pad haze throughout the entire finish. So be careful where you get your expert information.


:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top