Poli-seal, Opti-Seal and OCW performance

yakky said:
It sounds like you stacked everything in one sitting. IMO, its hard to get Opti-seal on top of Poli-seal. The surface is just too slick. Though others will disagree, you stacked stuff on a not very durable product, and everything on top just went down the drain. I think if you had waited till the next car wash or re-applied the Opti-seal then, you would get at least two months durability. If you want to really judge durability of any product, do an IPA wipedown and apply it to bare paint.

That said, if you like easy to work with products, 845IW will give you what you want, its great stuff. KSG is also great, but it has a well earned reputation for the disaster that happens if you apply it too thick.
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I agree with everything in this post. I don't think that meguiars gold class stripped protection. I've been using gold class for a long time (it has good lubricity and sheets water pretty well, and its cheap!!) and its definitely not detrimental to any wax or sealant I've used.
 
jonn127 said:
If you IPA after 205 and remove the oils, does that not sort of defeat the purpose of using it? Or is the 205's job to basically get rid of any marks left over by the 105 and the oils just help in that process? Then once its done its done and an IPA is fine to use?
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The 205 is a polish. It's only purpose is to refine the paint (remove fine swirls scratches etc.) The oils within 205 are just part of the compostion of the polish to lubricate the abrasives, control it's working time, and in general make it work in the way that it was designed.

The sealant or wax that goes on should be placed over a surface that does NOT have oils (which will interfere with bonding to the paint).

So an IPA or other means of cleaning the oils off is best practice before waxing or sealing.
 
There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread about "prep" and wipedowns. When we talk about "prep" for applying a wax or sealant, we're not talking about swirl removal, we're talking about having a clean surface which is free of bonded contaminants (things stuck to the paint which "pierce" the continuous film of the LSP, reducing longevity) and oils (which are frequently a byproduct of polishes, as noted). Usually a wax will be ok over oils (see #7, etc.), but usually not a sealant (although Opti-Seal is supposed to be able to go over a wax).

M205 (full disclosure: I have not used this product but I do have a bottle of it waiting for the proper alignment of planets) is known to leave behind difficult-to-remove polishing oils. That's why the suggestions of IPA wipedowns, etc. Theoretically the Poli-Seal could have cleaned off the M205 residue, but perhaps it wasn't worked in that well (unclear if the OP used a machine with the Poli-Seal).

IMO the Poli-Seal was a redundant step in the regimen, M205 is a finishing polish, following it with an AIO is redundant.
 
WGDGPS is an excellent choice with great durability.
 
If you want to layer, you need to strip the paint and have a bare surface when applying a sealant such as opti-seal. To be on the safe side, let opti-seal cure for 24 hours, then top with OCW as desired.
 
Like 07 said, I've seen best results with a clean surface. Then applying opti-seal and letting it cure for 24 hours. I've seen 3-5 months durability with just opti-seal down here on vehicles that sit in the weather 24/7.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
T Usually a wax will be ok over oils (see #7, etc.), but usually not a sealant (although Opti-Seal is supposed to be able to go over a wax).
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The problem with a good coat of Poli-seal is the slickness. When I tried to put Opti-seal over it, none of it comes off the applicator. Usually when you apply Opti-seal you can see it streaking a bit, then it evaporates. With Poli-seal on the surface, does not do that, it seems to just sit on the applicator. I'm sure its the same way with anything else on the surface.
 
Collinite 845 is a wax according to many and here's a paragraph from the product description from the product page.

"Collinite Liquid Insulator Wax, for example, is one of the finest liquid carnauba waxes you can buy. It has the shine and wetness of carnauba but its longevity is more like a paint sealant. You can expect up to 5 months of protection and incredible water-beading, even on non-garaged vehicles."

Waxes used to be better than sealants but sealants have evolved through the years and not rival their counterparts in shine, ease of use, and longevity.

Sealants are a synthetic formulation whereas Waxes are considered natural due to the ingredients of their chemical composition.

Mike Phillips posted a nice writeup on Waxes vs. Sealants.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...erence-between-cleaner-wax-finishing-wax.html
 
Yakky,

If you got to the Optimum forums you will find that there is information about the fact that Opti-Seal chemical migrates below or above its counterparts, so theoretically it makes no difference which order you apply, though it doesn't make sense to me why you would use a cleaner-sealer on top of a pure sealer.

I used the Poli-Seal first to have it take out any extra swirls that it could, despite the prior use of M205.

See also this thread, which talks about pouring some opti-seal into the poli-seal and applying: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/20960-optimum-opinions.html
 
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FWIW, here is my philosophy about winter wax durability: DO NOT MIX WAXES/SEALANTS. Choose your protectant poison and stick with it. Get the surface clean and apply 2+ coats.

One simply does not know how two different protectants, even if they are made by the same company, will interact. The second may well compromise the durability provided by the first--or vice versa.

For this reason I do not use an AIO when I am applying my winter protection. I do not use Klasse, so it may well be, as many so testify, that KAIO does not compromise the protection offered by multiple layers of Klasse sealant; but I do not know if this is also pertains to AIOs made by other companies. I do know that by themselves AIOs are generally less durable than stand-alone sealants. I do not like applying my winter sealant on top of a less durable protectant. If the bottom layer fails, will this not also affect the layer on top? I do not have any data to support this prejudice ... but it's my prejudice and I'm sticking with it. ;)

When one is applying winter wax protection, aesthetics takes a back seat. Let's be honest, after a wash or two sealants all start to look alike. We are in this for the long haul. We want a protectant that will still be protecting our cars after four long months. Go with the durable protectant and don't worry about that special "look" that only lasts a few days. Wait until the non-summer months to play around with wax combos.

This winter I chose Finish Kare 1000p for our Honda CR-V. During October I applied three coats. I hope to find it still beading into March. We shall see.
 
Actually if you read the Optimum forums and search AG's forum, layering opti-seal and poli-seal and OCW is a common practice. Also, poli-seal and opti-seal are both sealants. There's a lot on the Optimum site about compatibility. I do agree though that it would appear to make sense to stick to one product. However there is a lot of data that OCW lasts the longest, so that is why I used it as a top layer.

In any case, I'm still not getting too many opinions on Klasse and Wolfgang sealants. I feel like I need to test a new product and the bad weather here is certainly setting in, so I want to do it soon.
 
yakky said:
The problem with a good coat of Poli-seal is the slickness. When I tried to put Opti-seal over it, none of it comes off the applicator. Usually when you apply Opti-seal you can see it streaking a bit, then it evaporates. With Poli-seal on the surface, does not do that, it seems to just sit on the applicator. I'm sure its the same way with anything else on the surface.
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That seems very strange.

I would not expect there to be any issues at all with OS over Poli-Seal, as long as a sufficient amount of time elapsed between the two.

I'll have to try this, I have both products here.
 
charlestek said:
In any case, I'm still not getting too many opinions on Klasse and Wolfgang sealants. I feel like I need to test a new product and the bad weather here is certainly setting in, so I want to do it soon.
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A simple search will get you PLENTY of info on both products ;)
 
charlestek said:
In any case, I'm still not getting too many opinions on Klasse and Wolfgang sealants. I feel like I need to test a new product and the bad weather here is certainly setting in, so I want to do it soon.
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Just get the Wolfgang if you want something new and these 2 are what you're choosing from. Problem solved.

More people aren't chiming on these two products because they have already spoken their thoughts on them so many times. Like Dwayne said it's all there in the search bar if the answers you are getting aren't satisfactory. :) Good luck
 
Since all the talk about optimum, whats peoples thoughts on Using the OPC on a convertible top. Tan top so its showing its age.
 
The IPA after polishing comments are not the issue. Poliseal will clean up the oils with no problem. It had to be an environmental variable that prevented good bonding or the Meg's soap. 1-2 trips through a automated wash will remove it as well, did you hand wash it every time? I have the Opticoat on my whole car except the roof and up there I have PS, OS, OCW...that were all applied the same day. It lasted about 3-4 months in the summer until I did ONE dawn wash, then it was gone...no beading, sheeting or anything. I had more RDS on the roof that I wanted to get out before Opticoating and just never got around to it so now that's my test spot for everything
 
It is possible I screwed up the dilution. I have to check if my pail is 3 gallon or 5 gallon, I filled it up halfway and used 4 bottle caps per gallon as instructed (thinking I was using about 2 gallons of water). The Meguiars gold class shampoo is supposed to be ok: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...t-good-inexpensive-car-wash-soap-shampoo.html

I did use about 2-3 coats of opti-seal. The combo of all 3 should be darn protective.

I now have some Optimum Waterless Wash, which I will use going forward.

However, I do have to re-seal the car. It looks like the Wolfgand Glaze is the best, but I need a garage to remove the swirls and a garage for 12 hours to let the glaze cure, which I may or may not be able to get. I don't have a garage in my house. This is why I was thinking about the Klasse AIO, it would take out some swirls, and I hope it cures faster.
 
Yeah, I hand washed it every time. I will not use a brush or brushless automatic wash. The closest I would do is use a manual spray stall in winter.
 
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