Sneak Peek! - New Polisher!

kkritsilas said:
I can see the point, but speaking as a non0professional (i.e. I don't get paid to detail), I have never used a rotarty buffer, and most likely never will. I started paint correction with the PC. Learning on the PC, I try to apply pressure directly the center of the pad, or I get stalling. I then moved to the Flex 3401. It rotates in the opposite direction, but as long as I apply the pressure to the center of the pad. Doing that, and using a 5.5" pad eliminates the "walking", which is something that I don't want; my ideal use entails keeping the pad as flat as possible, and the pressure centered so that I am not fighting the machine. So for me, and I would bet, for a lot of 3401 users, the counterclockwise spin isn't an issue. I also would like to re-iterate the point that there are many, very, very many, people who use the 3401, and there hasn't been a huge outcry regarding the counterclockwise rotation.

If you have learned to polish with a rotary polisher, I can see where you may have an issue, and perhaps for the pro detailers it is a concern. But for non-pros like me, who only learned on DAs, and moved onto the 3401, it isn't a consideration. I specifically stayed away from rotaries due to their reputation for burning paint, and only started machine polishing when the DAs started to come out. If I had somebody who could have shown me how to properly use a rotary polisher, I may have learned to use one, but there wasn't, so I waited until I felt I could use a machine polisher safely, which for me was with a PC.
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As a professional, I started with the rotary and I eventually tried the flex 3401. The oppisite rotation did take some getting used too. But the hardest thing for me was not being able to used compressed air to clean my pads effectively which I've always done after every set
 
mwoywod said:
As a professional, I started with the rotary and I eventually tried the flex 3401. The oppisite rotation did take some getting used too. But the hardest thing for me was not being able to used compressed air to clean my pads effectively which I've always done after every set
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Why couldn't you use compressed air?


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WRAPT C5Z06 said:
Why couldn't you use compressed air?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I like having a free spinning spindle when using a DA. Because My 15 MKII is modded and the rest of my standard DA polishers don't have anti-spin control I can blow out spent polish and paint residue into a bucket after every pass. Some people only use air to fluff up microfiber cutting pads, but for me I prefer blowing residue out of all of my foam and wool pads as well. When I first started I tried turning my DA on and holding it against a towel and I also tried to remove residue with a pad brush but both methods seemed less than effective.

Alot of manufacturers warn against compressed air because they say it blows the polish further down into the cells of the pad, but in my experience as long as I hit it from the right angle far more of the spent residue ends up inside my bucket rather than pushed down inside my pad
 
mwoywod said:
I like having a free spinning spindle when using a DA. Because My 15 MKII is modded and the rest of my standard DA polishers don't have anti-spin control I can blow out spent polish and paint residue into a bucket after every pass. Some people only use air to fluff up microfiber cutting pads, but for me I prefer blowing residue out of all of my foam and wool pads as well. When I first started I tried turning my DA on and holding it against a towel and I also tried to remove residue with a pad brush but both methods seemed less than effective.

Alot of manufacturers warn against compressed air because they say it blows the polish further down into the cells of the pad, but in my experience as long as I hit it from the right angle far more of the spent residue ends up inside my bucket rather than pushed down inside my pad
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You can hit the trigger and the pad will spin, then blow out the pad.
 
I don't have anything against the rotary polisher. I understand in body shops and professional detailing shops, it is often the fastest way to get the desired results. I have nothing but the utmost in respects for those that can use it properly. However, I do not know of anybody who is willing to show me how to use one properly; I would jump at the chance to learn how, if presented with it. Until that happens, I have no intention of experimenting, and finding out the hard way, that I used it improperly. I can get what I need in terms of paint correction/finish with the PC and the 3401m just not as quickly as with a rotary. Being that I only do my own (and those of a few friends) cars, that isn't a big deal.

Getting back to where this started from, mwyowod is a pro that uses a rotary and a 3401, by his own statement. According to him, "....The oppisite rotation did take some getting used too (sic)..." I take this to mean that the opposite direction of spin from the 3401 isn't an impossible obstacle for its use. So the "3401 spins in the wrong direction' is really just a preference thing, nothing more. It is not something that renders the 3401 unusable or fatally flawed.

I can even take a guess as to why the 3401 spins in the directions that it does. Here goes: the 3401 most likely uses a motor that is used in other Flex machines, most of which are rotary polishers. This motor, in a rotary polisher, spins in the same rotation direction as all of the other rotary machines. In fact, if you do the free spindle mod that Yvan Lacroix shows on Youtube, you will see that the spindle does in fact rotate clockwise, just like most other machines do. When the backing plate and the ring gear are in place, however, the direction of rotation are reversed due to the way the gearing between the backing plate and the ring gear mesh. If Flex were to make their next forced rotation polisher rotate clockwise, they would either need to redesign the motor to spin in the opposite direction, or rework the gearing, adding another intermediate gear. Reworking the motor will probably increase the cost substantially, as it would be the only machine that used that motor (more than likely some changes would be needed to the motor controls as well), so the volume advantages of commonality would be lost. Since there are not many who have issues with the 3401's direction of rotation, I don't see this happening any time soon.
 
I don't have anything against the rotary polisher. I understand in body shops and professional detailing shops, it is often the fastest way to get the desired results. I have nothing but the utmost in respects for those that can use it properly. However, I do not know of anybody who is willing to show me how to use one properly; I would jump at the chance to learn how, if presented with it. Until that happens, I have no intention of experimenting, and finding out the hard way, that I used it improperly. I can get what I need in terms of paint correction/finish with the PC and the 3401; just not as quickly as with a rotary. Being that I only do my own (and those of a few friends) cars, that isn't a big deal.

Getting back to where this started from, mwyowod is a pro that uses a rotary and a 3401, by his own statement. According to him, "....The oppisite rotation did take some getting used too (sic)..." I take this to mean that the opposite direction of spin from the 3401 isn't an impossible obstacle for its use. So the "3401 spins in the wrong direction' is really just a preference thing, nothing more. It is not something that renders the 3401 unusable or fatally flawed.

I can even take a guess as to why the 3401 spins in the directions that it does. Here goes: the 3401 most likely uses a motor that is used in other Flex machines, most of which are rotary polishers. This motor, in a rotary polisher, spins in the same rotation direction as all of the other rotary machines. In fact, if you do the free spindle mod that Yvan Lacroix shows on Youtube, you will see that the spindle does in fact rotate clockwise, just like most other free rotation DA machines do. When the backing plate and the ring gear are in place, however, the direction of rotation are reversed due to the way the gearing between the backing plate and the ring gear mesh. If Flex were to make their next forced rotation polisher rotate clockwise, they would either need to redesign the motor to spin in the opposite direction, or rework the gearing, adding another intermediate gear. Reworking the motor will probably increase the cost substantially, as it would be the only machine that used that motor (more than likely some changes would be needed to the motor controls as well), so the volume advantages of commonality would be lost. Changing the gearing would render all of the existing 3401 plates obsolete. Since there are not many who have issues with the 3401's direction of rotation, I don't see either scenario happening any time soon.
 
kkritsilas said:
. So the "3401 spins in the wrong direction' is really just a preference thing, nothing more.
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The 3401 spins in the right direction, everything else spins in the wrong direction :xyxthumbs:. I once had an out of the country visitor tell me my toilet flushed in the wrong direction ha. It's all relative. Your right, it's a preference thing. If you don't like the direction of rotation, it's "wrong".
 
kkritsilas,

Anytime you're in the S.Cal area and would like to see how I run a rotary I'd be happy to show you. I've taught a lot of people and my method for teaching is really safe and stress free and if you want to learn how to use one, I can teach you enough in a couple of hours for you to be both safe and effective.

The new paints are a lot harder to hurt than what I learned on and the new compounds and pads are so much safer I really don't understand why there's so much resistance to picking up a rotary.

RSW
 
kkritsilas said:
I don't have anything against the rotary polisher. I understand in body shops and professional detailing shops, it is often the fastest way to get the desired results. I have nothing but the utmost in respects for those that can use it properly. However, I do not know of anybody who is willing to show me how to use one properly; I would jump at the chance to learn how, if presented with it. Until that happens, I have no intention of experimenting, and finding out the hard way, that I used it improperly. I can get what I need in terms of paint correction/finish with the PC and the 3401m just not as quickly as with a rotary. Being that I only do my own (and those of a few friends) cars, that isn't a big deal.
Click to expand...

Mike teaches all machines in his classes....
 
mc2hill said:
Mike teaches all machines in his classes....
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And I always tell my class

"When learning to use the rotary buffer, it's a good idea to learn from someone that has actually used one"


Here's my first rotary buffer that I purchased in either 1986 or 1987, when I bought this Makita 9207 SPC it was one of the first rotary buffers to offer a variable speed dial as before this model most were were 2-speed buffers with the option for low and high and nothing in-between and the low would have been around 1500 RPM.


I has a special place in my antique wax collection because I used this tool to feed myself as well as pay all the bills for years. Long before all the tools we talk about today were even invented.



The top shelf inside the bookcase

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My first rotary buffer

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After it died I cut the existing 25' cord off at the end for display purposes. I also pass this around in all my 3-day Competition Ready Detailing Classes with a story to go with it. You that have attended my classes should remember.

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Makita Model 9207SPC

This was one of the first variable speed rotary buffers on the market. Back when it was introduced it was the in my opinion the best rotary buffer option on the market. It has turned thousands of pads...

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You have to buff out a lot of cars before you wear the rough, sand cast aluminum finish down to where its smooth like chrome.


I buffed out a lot of cars before I wore the side of the sandcast head smooth with my hand...


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:)
 
mc2hill said:
Mike teaches all machines in his classes....
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Not only do I teach it... I'm the only guy I know that documents it... at least I don't see any full write-ups with pictures from anyone else in this industry showing the student and their classes and haven't for the last 15+ years.


Here's just one example of a class on how to use the rotary buffer and the training car I brought it was just an old 2-door Chevy.... looks a lot like a 1966 Corvette Stingray, not bad for a rotary buffer training car. :laughing:



Audrey & Juan learning to use a Rotary Buffer on a 1966 Corvette


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Of course... my favorite rotary buffer is the FLEX PE14 Rotary Polisher.



:dblthumb2:
 
RSW said:
kkritsilas,

Anytime you're in the S.Cal area and would like to see how I run a rotary I'd be happy to show you. I've taught a lot of people and my method for teaching is really safe and stress free and if you want to learn how to use one, I can teach you enough in a couple of hours for you to be both safe and effective.

The new paints are a lot harder to hurt than what I learned on and the new compounds and pads are so much safer I really don't understand why there's so much resistance to picking up a rotary.

RSW
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I would love to get down to SoCal (with RSW) or Florida (with Mike) but at this time, money is an issue (lost my job in Nov.), and I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, so just the airfare is financially out of reach. I would like nothing more than to attend one of Mike's detaling workshops, not just to learn how to use a rotary, but to try out the Rupes and GG Boss DAs, learn what I can, and gain experience with a variety of techniques and products, and of course to meet Mike (or RSW). Even if I was employed right now, I still don't know of any other affordable way to try out multiple polishers and products that are either not available here, or are too expensive to just do a try out on (as in a Rupes MKII polisher), or to get the wealth of information, guidance and experience that would be available.

I thank everybody for their generous offers of teach me how to use a rotatry, I really do appreciate it.

P.S. I own 3 cars, a daily driver (2006 Monte Carlo SS), and two older cars (a 1980 Cordoba Crown, and a 1981 Dodge Mirada CMX). The harder paint comment applies completely to the daily driver, but the other two are single stage acrylic enamel. They both need a lot of work, but I will eventually get them done.
 
Philips146 said:
so when will the polisher be revealed?
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Well....


I came to work early to do an AGGRESSIVE wash to the 1971 Duster out in the garage. I just posted about 5 videos to my Facebook page here which documents how I washed this car to get it ready for machine sanding.

Click this link and scroll down to see the vids...


https://www.facebook.com/Mike.Phillips.Autogeek/




I have a meeting at 10:00am today and after that I'll start machine sanding. Then compound and polishing using the new tool. While I'm doing the work, (that's the easy part), I'll stop and take pictures, perhaps a few videos. Then stating today and finishing tomorrow I process the pictures and add a few hundred words, maybe a few thousand words and then after proof-reading the text, I'll coordinate with Danielle and will launch the new product.

We do this for a lot of new products. Multiple people here at Autogeek have assigned tasks, my task is to use the product, pad or tool and then write a review.

I don't believe in or practice "Mock-ups". So in order to post a REAL review I have to use the tool. I prefer to work on cool cars, not mundane daily drivers, that's why you see the 1971 Duster Muscle Car here at Autogeek.


So give me some time.... and together with my colleagues here at Autogeek we'll get this new tool launched Autogeek style...



:buffing: Im the MAN :buffing: Im the MAN :buffing: Im the MAN
 
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