Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?

vobro said:
Given time more will come out about the TW ceramic line, don't think it as been a week yet since the release. As far as your wining and dining comment, I have no issue because it was well stated that TW invited them and TW reps did presented the products, as far as bias part I chalk that up to introduction of a new product line from a big time player.
TW has released some solid products over the last few years that perform at a value price and I have little doubt the Hybrid line will be decent. As far as comparing the line to CQ coatings I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. At the $15-20 entry point it's unreasonable to compare but that doesn't mean that the complete Hybrid line isn't a good value for what it is, time will tell to an individual if the Hybrid line is worth it
Click to expand...

Very good points. From a non detailer perspective (if you want to know what a non detailer's journey loosk like):

Just 6 years ago, It was $700 (which to me was a lot of money for this) including some light paint correction to get my car Ceramic Pro Coated. It had a 10 year warranty No one could really do it or access the products except Pro Detailers. My detailer was still doing $40 car washes and lots of paint correction with a final coat of Powerlock. This cost about $350. PPF was super expensive and the films were OK. So expensive, it wasn't even an option for me

I still had to top off the coating with Reload to maintain great beading and shine so I wondered, "If I have to apply a product to my car regularly, why did I spend all this money?" This dimension is not covered under the 10 year warranty and not sure how many ceramic coats are completely redone by detailers at lets say year 8 to take advantage of those warranties. There were only 2 authorized Ceramic Pro installers in the area

3 years ago when I got a new car, there are all these other options. 2 year warranties, 5 year, 10 year. To get a 10 year, the price is now $1400. I rarely see my detailer doing car washes anymore. There are many more brands besides Ceramic Pro. I hear of people paying 2k for coatings. I notice he is doing a lot more PPF. I decide to just use a sealant (Powerlock) and save money and the Powerlock works OK. Meanwhile these consumer grade prodcuts that you can apply yourself start showing up. Most are advertise to last 1-2 years.

6 months ago I have a NEW, pretty expensive car. I am told how the technology for PPF has advanced and see it on cars. I can barely tell its on. So I go with PPF on the front of the car. I use Car Pro Reload for everyting as I dont need much pressure to apply and dont have to worry about it on the trim or PPF.

There are so many Ceramic manufacturers at this point in time, I lose track. I am watching more and more detailing videos on You Tube. My detailer sends a email blast telling people that they no longer do just car washes but they will honor car wash passes people have bought in the past. He removes all references to the word "wash" from his logo, domain name, marketing. He tells me all his business is Cermic or Quartz coatings and films.

Today - Companies like Turtle Wax are making durable products that are so easy to apply the role of the detailer for Cermics is unknown and its unknown of these high prices will be accepted in the future without a new break through professional only product. You can apply cermaic with decent results for little money and there are tons of people showing videos of great results. Every manufacturer HAS to make something with the words "Ceramic" in it to compete these days.



Price doesn't really indicate the quality of products. Companies like TW who are not starting the process from scratch (Ceramic development) and have tons of resources and buying power can now make a great product that out performs products of the past. It may even be better product for less money than previous leaders in Ceramics. Remember how expensive microfiber or foam cannons used to be when they first came out and how the technology has only evolved and prices less expensive?

My point is that I think this TW Hybrid is more of a coating than sealant from my perspective (non detailer) and that it may indeed compete with Cquartz. Personally if I wanted a permanent solution like a coating I would rather just to the Cquartz and pay the extra money so I don't have to reapply as much.

My other point is that there will probably be something new coming out soon so I want something that I can easily remove or apply over a competitive product without complex processes (polishing or compounding and dealing with my PPF)

There is one big influencer on You tube and I asked about removing the TW Hybrid. He gets a little snippy with me and asks "Why would you ever want to remove it?" (he also has videos as he brags how he was a consultant to TW for this product) - Because of this I start questioning the reviews on this product and hope more people that are not the people invited to the event comment on this product, do realistic, relevant comparisons, and really tell us how it should be used. And this is what prompted my original post and my desire to not have such of a "permanent" solution.

Wish TW would have asked some some consumers like me their opinions along side of the detailer influencers on Youtube. I also wish some kind person in S Cal would just show me how to use a polisher "hands on" and get this over with (ha ha)
 
Diamond Dog said:
From a non detailer perspective (if you want
to know how a non detailer's journey is):

My point is that I think this TW Hybrid is more
of a coating than sealant from my perspective
(non detailer)
Click to expand...
Again:
I’m asserting that this TW product is not
more of a Coating, than a Sealant.

Diamond Dog said:
and that it may indeed compete
with Cquartz.
Click to expand...
Of course it can compete with CQuartz;
but I’ll bet a dollar to a donut hole that
it will wind up sucking hind-tit.


Diamond Dog said:
Personally if I wanted a permanent solution
like a coating I would rather just to the
Cquartz and pay the extra money so I don't
have to reapply as much.
Click to expand...
You may not have to re-apply CQuartz
as much, or as often, but CQuartz is not
promoted as being a permanent Coating.

********************************

• Here’s the dealio:
Whether I’m Right; or Wrong...I’m saving
today’s TW-dialogue to compare to any/all
future TW ‘reportings’.

The End (?)

:)

Bob
 
FUNX650 said:
Again:
I’m asserting that this TW product is not
more of a Coating, than a Sealant.


Of course it can compete with CQuartz;
but I’ll bet a dollar to a donut hole that
it will wind up sucking hind-tit.



You may not have to re-apply CQuartz
as much, or as often, but CQuartz is not
promoted as being a permanent Coating.

********************************

• Here’s the dealio:
Whether I’m Right; or Wrong...I’m saving
today’s TW-dialogue to compare to any/all
future TW ‘reportings’.

The End :)

Bob
Click to expand...

It says COATING on the bottle. Plus TW is saying you need to compound (not polish) it off so this is why I disagree and think it should be compared to other coatings and why I started the OP. This is especially an issue on PPF

I agree with you that it will not perform as well as CQuartz and this is the reason for my whole OP as I feel it should be compared more with these type of products.


 
Oh boy...

I wouldn't worry about a product under $20 lasting a year... or TWO, LOL. So how about this, grab that Jaskson out of your wallet, get change back and try it out, it's very easy to use as it's been compared to TW seal and Shine, called IT on steroids.

Just my .02 cents worth but TW has been on a roll lately so I see no reason to take them at their word here, this isn't your Father's TW

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Diamond Dog said:
It says COATING on the bottle.
Click to expand...


When Meguiar's launched NXT Tech Wax, the word on the label was WAX but technically it's a synthetic paint sealant.


At the retail level, you have about 3-5 seconds to get Joe Consumer's attention or the scan past to the next label.

From a retail point of view, it is a coating as it is going to coat-over the surface.


I say use it and when you see the beading falling off, apply a fresh coat.


:)
 
Klasse Act said:
Oh boy...

I wouldn't worry about a product under $20 lasting a year... or TWO, LOL. So how about this, grab that Jaskson out of your wallet, get change back and try it out, it's very easy to use as it's been compared to TW seal and Shine, called IT on steroids.

Just my .02 cents worth but TW has been on a roll lately so I see no reason to take them at their word here, this isn't your Father's TW

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm not worrying about it lasting a year. If you read my post, I would be happy with 6 months. The compounding it off to remove is more of the issue and that put this product in a different classification of products than spray waxes and suggest more reviews under those parameters. If I could remove this with an IPA wipedown (especially on PPF), this would be a non issue. Try it. don't like it, simply wipe it off like most sealants.

I was also hoping to encourage more reviews on this aside from the people invited from the event and some non detailers to review as well.

I dont even care about the cost. I would pay 2-3 times what they are asking for the right product
 
Klasse Act said:
Oh boy...

I wouldn't worry about a product under $20 lasting a year... or TWO, LOL.


So how about this, grab that Jaskson out of your wallet, get change back and try it out, it's very easy to use as it's been compared to TW seal and Shine, called IT on steroids.
Click to expand...


Well said.


After reading this thread, I need to try this product.

Problem is - I need a tester car.


:)
 
Btw cool screen name, Bowie fan I take it

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Diamond Dog said:
I'm not worrying about it lasting a year. If you read my post, I would be happy with 6 months. The compounding it off to remove is more of the issue and that put this product in a different classification of products than spray waxes and suggest more reviews under those parameters. If I could remove this with an IPA wipedown (especially on PPF), this would be a non issue. Try it. don't like it, simply wipe it off like most sealants.

I was also hoping to encourage more reviews on this aside from the people invited from the event and some non detailers to review as well
Click to expand...
I guess in the short term you would have to remove it more aggressively but going down the road it's not going to be so much of an issue, like we tried to say though, just try it, lots of variables here, "like" is pretty broad

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Diamond Dog said:
I can't agree more and that is why people
may want to remove this product. TW may
also read this and make a "hand remover"
for it, if anything so people can get a clean
base surface for re-application.
Click to expand...
•There are hundreds, maybe thousands,
of “hand removers” all ready out there.
-Turtle Wax even has a bunch of ‘em.


Bob
 
I tried 3 in 1 hybrid detailer not impressed..leaves oily film and bit hard to remove..could be weather not sure but first use not impressed..
 
Klasse Act said:
I guess in the short term you would have to remove it more aggressively but going down the road it's not going to be so much of an issue
Click to expand...

This is my thinking as well, Rog.

At first, it may require "Spiders from Mars" to remove it, but down the road could be removed by a "China Girl". ;)
 
Diamond Dog said:
It says COATING on the bottle.
Plus TW is saying you need to compound
(not polish) it off so this is why I disagree
and think it should be compared to other
coatings and why I started the OP.

This is especially an issue on PPF

I agree with you that it will not perform as
well as CQuartz and this is the reason for
my whole OP as I feel it should be compared
more with these type of products.


Click to expand...
•Your prerogative to agree/disagree...
-But you’re not even in the ballpark, IMHO.


Bob
 
Diamond Dog said:
It says COATING on the bottle. Plus TW is saying you need to compound (not polish) it off so this is why I disagree and think it should be compared to other coatings and why I started the OP. This is especially an issue on PPF

I agree with you that it will not perform as well as CQuartz and this is the reason for my whole OP as I feel it should be compared more with these type of products.

[/URL]
Click to expand...

The term coating and ceramic are thrown around too loosely these days.

In fact what makes a product a coating? If a product had 0.01% SiO2 does that make it a coating/ceramic? What I’m getting at is that there are no clean definitions of a coating.

With that said there are categories of coating type products.

Your more robust semi permanent coatings like Cquartz, GTechniq l, etc. These will always perform better than a spray on product and have been referred to a true coating.

Then there are coating lite products like Cquartz Lite or Gyeon CanCoat. They may not last as long but they have that coating like behavior.

Then comes the SiO2/ceramic infused sealants which are often referred to as maintenance products. Far less “ceramic” ingredients and nowhere near as durable yet can have coating like behavior. These products contain more polymers than ceramic in their chemical make up. This is where TW falls into. So not it is not a true coating and it can’t hold a candle to one.

If most coatings can be removed with a medium cut polish or in some cases a light cut polish after a few months then what’s to say TW can not be removed the same way.

I will go out on a limb and say a product like Meguiar’s M205 will remove it with ease.
 
So many Assumptions about TW products that most in this thread haven’t even tried yet.. What’s up with that?

Just my opinion, but I doubt TW would put this much effort into releasing a complete line with as much as they’ve put into all sides of it in the year 2019 and somehow be way off as far as their terminology.. Not only does TW on its own deserve a bit more respect, but if you need any real proof all you have to do is watch their latest demo video [posted in this thread]? To see that they know what the heck is going on in the real world of detailing.

They’d be a laughing stock if these products couldn’t be at least in the same ballpark as “coatings” of today.. And to say a spray on coating could never compare to a dedicated boutique PITA to apply so called real coating is quite simply being closed minded. Detailing products are evolving at never a before seen rate these days.. I have no doubt that they’ve either already invented it or are planning it’s release for the right time.

And as far as it not being realistic for a TW consumer product to last anywhere near a year? How bout that Endura Tire Coating? People suddenly forgot about that? Hands down the Best dang tire product the world has ever seen. Nuff said.
 
I'm going to use Meguiar's Hybrid Ceramic Wax, Mothers CMX Ceramic Spray Coating, and Turtle Wax Ice Seal N Shine as my examples because it's too early to be definitive about the new TW Ceramic Spray Coating. None of these three consumer sprays in my testing at one coat had anywhere near the same performance and longevity of a full coating like CQuartz UK 3.0. When I placed one coat of each on the paint and let them run without toppers on the ungaraged daily driver, CQUK absolutely blows them out of the water. HCW and SNS were on par with each other and slowed down greatly from their initial performance, but still survived at 5 months. CQUK looks like I just applied it yesterday at 5 months old. The gap in performance between the spray market and the true ceramic market is massive when you put them under the same conditions, even products like the Adam's Ceramic Spray Coating and IGL Premier were severely outmatched by CQUK.

However, you can still get awesome performance with regular maintenance out of all of those sprays. That's the main benefit, the ease of use in reapplication that will extend protection to your desire. But if you ask me what's the best way to remove any wax/sealant/coating, my answer is abrasives. Reload in the short term will laugh an IPA wipedown right off the paint. SNS can outperform some coatings in chemical resistance in the short term, and even HCW and CMX will be very resistant against IPA or strip wash soaps. Abrasives have always been the best method to better ensure product removal, I haven't found a magic safe solvent that has convinced me to not prep all of my product testing with abrasives, I use the panel wipe as both a pre-polish and post-polish process. So the idea of needing that stronger method in order to ensure a clean slate is not a new concept and isn't reserved just for true ceramic coatings.

I'd be very surprised if you actually needed a heavy cut compound to remove the new TW Spray Coating. In my opinion using a polisher with something like Meguiar's M205/210 or Sonax Perfect Finish would easily abrade it from the paint like they do with CQuartz. The debate is a flat water sheet doesn't guarantee the product has been removed, it's possible you can abrade partially into the coating and remove most of the hydrophobics without fully removing it entirely. The more likely scenario is to run chemical dump tests until the product is fully flat and yet still not fully remove the entire layer. The other debate is just because you don't see a hydrophilic water sheet, it doesn't mean the product hasn't been fully removed, bare paint has differing degrees of surface tension when completely unprotected. The degree of certainty that we've removed the product is more clear with abrasives and the heavier you go the more certainty you have, but I've been satisfied in many cases against coatings with only needing a light/medium abrasive with a polishing pad for removal.

My expectations for TW's new spray coating is not for it to compete against CQuartz and comparable full ceramics, but for it to be more competitive in the spray sealant category. Jimbo and Pan also had early access to the lineup prior to release, they will have more insight into their long term performances and this is probably the reason why they're more likely to compare against products in the spray sealant lineup as well. That's my guess, but for the rest of us we're going to need more time to get longer term results in, and I'm looking forward to seeing just how well it can hold up!
 
Loach said:
I'm going to use Meguiar's Hybrid Ceramic Wax, Mothers CMX Ceramic Spray Coating, and Turtle Wax Ice Seal N Shine as my examples because it's too early to be definitive about the new TW Ceramic Spray Coating. None of these three consumer sprays in my testing at one coat had anywhere near the same performance and longevity of a full coating like CQuartz UK 3.0. When I placed one coat of each on the paint and let them run without toppers on the ungaraged daily driver, CQUK absolutely blows them out of the water. HCW and SNS were on par with each other and slowed down greatly from their initial performance, but still survived at 5 months. CQUK looks like I just applied it yesterday at 5 months old. The gap in performance between the spray market and the true ceramic market is massive when you put them under the same conditions
Click to expand...

So if I’m reading this correctly, you’re leaving the new TW Spray Coating out of this testing and out of your opinion as of today? Because sure it’s alot easier to say none of those 3 products deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as CQuartz dedicated coating, but why not compare apples to apples? Or at least what we’re all currently interested ln comparing... The brand new TW products.
 
Every few years comes along something that’s known as a game changer... And until the masses discover it on their own through 1st hand experience, it’s initial reputation gets built on assumptions and heresy, doubts, etc..

Just imagine how hard it must’ve been to bring the 1st real widely used rinseless wash concentrate to market? For example Megs D114 was a sales failure and was eventually discontinued.. Proof that it’s not always easy to change the game and convince the masses to even pay attention, but it can happen.

I’m not saying this exact TW line is a bonafied game changer, I’m just saying that anything is possible. We should at least give things an honest shake before assuming it’s not in the same league.
 
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