Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating - Are the reviews misleading?

[Coatingsarecrack]

How long did the SNS bead well for you? How about Griots 3-1? We’re they both used as toppers or standalone?

I posted current comparison at on 1/7 and believe applied on 1/4. On hood prepped but not polish. Thoughts on griots ceramic 3-1 thread in AG.

I got 2 months of beading before on TW but what was lacking was self cleaning. I compared SNS against cosmic but just washed and applied no problem for Cosmic butcwas suprised at SNS’s performance so did another H2H with Griots.

Beading was great from SNS but noticed water behavior/removal was quicker with both other products.

I

This was from last night after being rained on all day. Bottom is GC3-1 bottom TWSNS. Hard to tell but less water and tighter beading on 3-1 side

Right: TWSNS

Left: GC3-1

These were from wash last week and used just the hose not the PW so decided to sheet some water off.

Can clearly see water is sheeting off faster 3-1 side.
On pick is flooding left to right other is right to left. Same results.

3-1 has impressed for the almost month it has been on. Ive hit it with a couple alkaline (Bilt Hamber autofoam) pretreats and its held up well so far. If i can wait another month I’m gonna hit with Fenylab Pure rinseless. I think the reason it messed with your toppers is it may be more alkaline base. Ive used it on my coated car and really like it. Wanna see if it will gum up the SNS and 3-1.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[acuRAS82]

I posted current comparison at on 1/7 and believe applied on 1/4. On hood prepped but not polish. Thoughts on griots ceramic 3-1 thread in AG.

I got 2 months of beading before on TW but what was lacking was self cleaning. I compared SNS against cosmic but just washed and applied no problem for Cosmic butcwas suprised at SNS’s performance so did another H2H with Griots.

Beading was great from SNS but noticed water behavior/removal was quicker with both other products.

I

This was from last night after being rained on all day. Bottom is GC3-1 bottom TWSNS. Hard to tell but less water and tighter beading on 3-1 side

Right: TWSNS

Left: GC3-1

These were from wash last week and used just the hose not the PW so decided to sheet some water off.

Can clearly see water is sheeting off faster 3-1 side.
On pick is flooding left to right other is right to left. Same results.

3-1 has impressed for the almost month it has been on. Ive hit it with a couple alkaline (Bilt Hamber autofoam) pretreats and its held up well so far. If i can wait another month I’m gonna hit with Fenylab Pure rinseless. I think the reason it messed with your toppers is it may be more alkaline base. Ive used it on my coated car and really like it. Wanna see if it will gum up the SNS and 3-1.

In the 2nd and 3rd pics, did you mean GC3-1 is on the right? Right side looks to sheet faster.

Let me know what Feynlab PR does on any toppers of yours. I’ve only used it as a pant prep in recent months.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

In the 2nd and 3rd pics, did you mean GC3-1 is on the right? Right side looks to sheet faster.

Let me know what Feynlab PR does on any toppers of yours. I’ve only used it as a pant prep in recent months.

Yeah sorry GC3-1 on right side. Ive used Fenylab twice and its been awesome on my coating. I make sure not to add anymore than recommendation. Ill usually go over when mesuring but this stuff isvery viscous. I only mix 2 gallons at a time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Calendyr]

Not to be picky about words but I am a Word Guy.

I have to wonder if it could simply be polished off.

There's a lot of difference in the aggressiveness level between a compound and a polish. In my how-to books, I use 4 groups or categories to separate compounds and polishes.

I state in it, and I believe from experience and from what I've seen in the industry, that you can separate compounds and polishes into at a minimum, 4 categories. Any companies product can be placed into one of the below categories.

1. Aggressive or coarse compound
2. Medium cut polish
3. Fine cut polish
4. Ultra fine cut polish

My guess is, the spray-on Turtle Wax Hybrid Coating can be removed with a

• Foam polishing pad
• Any brand of free spinning random orbital polisher
• A polish - Medium cut or Fine cut

Just a guess...

I don't like turning something that should be very simple into rocket science personally.

I am sure you are right about this. A polish should be able to remove any spray on sealant. I am guessing Turtle Wax mentions compound for 2 reasons:

1) They don't sell polishes as far as I know but they do sell compounds
2) Most people don't understand the difference and compound is know by many

 

[Calendyr]

My goal is to find a spray on, stand alone sealant or wax, that can easily be removed without a polisher, that gives at least 6 months of protection. Currently I use Car Pro Reload which falls pretty short of 6 months. I want a spray on vs liquid or paste solution to minimize the friction you need to apply to avoid swirling. Perhaps I have unreasonable expectations.

Many of the reviews for the New Turtle Wax Hybrid COATING (it says Coating on the bottle) are from detailers that were invited to a wine and dine launch event. On most of the reviews they talk about this product like it is a sealant (temporary) vs a coating (permanent). TW verified with me that to remove it, you have to compound it off (even if it shows no signs of water beading by putting it through a torture test as YouTubers love to do

I want a temporary sealant because there might be something else I may want to try in the future or not like this prodcut, I may want to start with fresh paint after a year to ensure a good bond, and finally many cars have partial Paint Protection Film that makes compounding it off an issue (scratching the PPF and voiding the warranty).

I feel that reviewers are talking about this product incorrectly. They should be comparing it other permanent coatings such as Cquartz or something like that and making it known that this is a coating not a sealant and will have to be compounded off should they wish to remove. Most consumers don't know how to compound off old product.

They should address questions like "why wouldn't you pay a little more and get 2 years of protection from competitive product?" and make more accurate comparisons when doing "shoot out" comparisons.

Again, Still on the hunt for a pray sealant vs a coating that can last (show water beading) 6 months or so.

If you are looking for a sealant, in my book Turtle Wax Seal and Shine is the best product on the market right now. I have seen durability tests where it lasted 11 months. The only issue with it is that in certain situations it can be streaky. In many tests I have seen it destroy products 5 times it's price. I also use reload for the gloss aspect of it, but in terms of durability, reload is not really good.

I have not tried any of the new hybrid products that just came out. From what I understand they are 1 year sealants. Depending on how easy they are to apply, I might consider replacing Seal and shine with them. But I am guessing they are all using technology similar to what seal and shine has.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

Seal and shine is breaking down in less than a month.... I prepped but did bot polish but both products i compared it against are performing significantly better.

Wonder if weather makes difference in performance. Rains a-lot here actually almost non stop last 2-3 weeks. I know alot of people love it but other than beading its been very meh for me.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Calendyr]

Seal and shine is breaking down in less than a month.... I prepped but did bot polish but both products i compared it against are performing significantly better.

Wonder if weather makes difference in performance. Rains a-lot here actually almost non stop last 2-3 weeks. I know alot of people love it but other than beading its been very meh for me.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is really odd. I don't know why it wouldn't last on your vehicle. Maybe a bad bottle?

 

[Rsurfer]

That is really odd. I don't know why it wouldn't last on your vehicle. Maybe a bad bottle?

Yeah, really odd.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

That is really odd. I don't know why it wouldn't last on your vehicle. Maybe a bad bottle?

Yeah you can see in picks above sheeting off really slow. Doubt it was bad batch.... started off fine. Still beads well just bad water repellency. Ive hit it with bilt hamber Autofoam which is an alkaline soap a couple times but also treated the griots side too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AZpolisher15]

Is the Hybrid Solutions ceramic coating glossier than the TW Spray n Seal?

 

[Klasse Act]

Is the Hybrid Solutions ceramic coating glossier than the TW Spray n Seal?

The reviews I've seen say no. Also don't forget there's a new TW Ice SnS now too

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[CleanIT]

Is the Hybrid Solutions ceramic coating glossier than the TW Spray n Seal?

This is directly from TW's FB page.

[FONT=&quot]"We know y’all have questions about the updated SNS, and the biggest question we are getting is about the difference between SNS and Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray Coating.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Guys, it all comes down to the application factor - instant cure with SNS vs. a 24 hour cure time with Ceramic Spray Coating. That being said, while SNS gives you some INSANE durability as a paint sealant, when you properly apply 2 coats of Ceramic Spray Coating onto a prepped car, you can get almost a YEAR of protection - which is longer than what you can expect from SNS. AND as our friend [/FONT]Pan TheOrganizer[FONT=&quot] says, Ceramic Spray Coating has “THE GLOSS, THE GLOSS, THE GLOSS.” For increased gloss with SNS, pick up some ICE Spray Wax as a topper.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At the end of the day, everyone loves having options so our R&D team is continuously improving and reformulating products to fit your detailing needs."[/FONT]

 

[acuRAS82]

1) Based on what I hear and what I see from TW Ceramic Spray Coating with my own eyes, I assume Ceramic Spray Coating is glossier that SNS. SNS seems more like a Meg’s Fast Finish to me... good protection and durability and ease of application, but probably not going to blow you away with looks or self-cleaning.

2) Wow, this thing with Pan’s “review” just got out-of-control-silly when TW themselves reference such a corny statement. That’s pretty bad from both sides, LOL!
I’m almost expecting to see an infomercial for TW ceramics at 2am with Pan wearing a ninja turtles’ shell on his back, yelling “THE GLOSS, THE GLOSS, THE GLOSS!”

 

[PA DETAILER]

Again, I have been using the coating and wet wax all summer. Stellar results. Easy application on both products. And the gloss is insane.

 

[CleanIT]

I've used SNS. Holds up extremely well. Easy to use too. Honestly, unless you're going for a true ceramic coating, I see no reason to use most of the higher end brands now that TW/Meguiar's and Griot's are offering such great products.

 

[WillSports3]

In terms of compounding and not needing to compound, a chemical break down of the item in comparison might give some hints and be revealing.

Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating uses IPA as the only solvent in the product.
By comparison, Reload has two different kinds of siloxane, naptha, methanol, benzyl benzoate, 1-2-4 Trimethylbenzene, as well as Orange Oil.
Meguiar's Ceramic Spray Wax uses ethoxylated C12-16 Alcohols, which is used as an emulsion for water and an oily substance to combine them together effectively.

Compared to Cquartz UK, it's main solvents are Nonane, naptha, methanol and Trimethylbenzen and it contains multiple forms of organic siloxane.
Compare that to GTechniq Crystal Serum (Pro version) It uses a proprietery hydrotreated light distillate, which is essentially a petroleum distillate as the solvent in it. Does a similar job to the methanol, naptha, nonane, methanol and trimethylbenzene as Cquartz UK. All very strong solvents, hence the jet fuel smell when you open the bottle.

In comparison to two similar products as well as two true coatings, Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating does not contain a high enough percentage of ceramic anything.

To give an example of a more "green" and "solvent free" product, IGL Kenzo contains smoothing agents at the very least in the form of Triethoxy-n-octylsilane and 3-Glycidyloxypropyltrimethoxysilane as a bonding agent.

The Hybrid Spray Coating, judging by it's chemical solvents, lacks anything that is used as a bonding agent for true ceramic (whether SiO2 or SiC) coverage. It is most likely, made up of very strong polymers with a small amount of SiO2 that relies on the polymer of choice to crosslink and bond to the paint itself. This is kind of revealed to be most likely as they state that two applications will leave you a longer period of protection. That is only likely if no strong solvents are involved. Essentially, they are using a kind of polymer that does not require a smoothing agent or a bonding agent directly to bond onto paint, especially by their choice of carrier solvent as IPA.

In comparison to their ICE Spray Wax, it's water, Polydimethylsiloxane and Carnauba in emulsion form (already mixed with smoothing agents and solvents).
For seal and shine, they use polydimethylsiloxane and aocohol ethoxylates as the solvent/smoothing agent.

Chemically, the two are different in the sense (it seems from the chemicals used) that the polymers in Ceramic Spray Coating has a very low percentage of actual ceramic molecules involved, and needs a curing time due to the crosslinking effects of those polymers.
Seal N Shine has a strong solvent that deposits the PDMS onto the surface. PDMS doesn't really require curing time, it's just on or not.

Judging from that, I wouldn't call this a coating at all but a very economical but effective sealant.

 

[Klasse Act]

An amazing break down here ^^^^

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[CleanIT]

In terms of compounding and not needing to compound, a chemical break down of the item in comparison might give some hints and be revealing.

Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating uses IPA as the only solvent in the product.
By comparison, Reload has two different kinds of siloxane, naptha, methanol, benzyl benzoate, 1-2-4 Trimethylbenzene, as well as Orange Oil.
Meguiar's Ceramic Spray Wax uses ethoxylated C12-16 Alcohols, which is used as an emulsion for water and an oily substance to combine them together effectively.

Compared to Cquartz UK, it's main solvents are Nonane, naptha, methanol and Trimethylbenzen and it contains multiple forms of organic siloxane.
Compare that to GTechniq Crystal Serum (Pro version) It uses a proprietery hydrotreated light distillate, which is essentially a petroleum distillate as the solvent in it. Does a similar job to the methanol, naptha, nonane, methanol and trimethylbenzene as Cquartz UK. All very strong solvents, hence the jet fuel smell when you open the bottle.

In comparison to two similar products as well as two true coatings, Turtle Wax Hybrid Spray Coating does not contain a high enough percentage of ceramic anything.

To give an example of a more "green" and "solvent free" product, IGL Kenzo contains smoothing agents at the very least in the form of Triethoxy-n-octylsilane and 3-Glycidyloxypropyltrimethoxysilane as a bonding agent.

The Hybrid Spray Coating, judging by it's chemical solvents, lacks anything that is used as a bonding agent for true ceramic (whether SiO2 or SiC) coverage. It is most likely, made up of very strong polymers with a small amount of SiO2 that relies on the polymer of choice to crosslink and bond to the paint itself. This is kind of revealed to be most likely as they state that two applications will leave you a longer period of protection. That is only likely if no strong solvents are involved. Essentially, they are using a kind of polymer that does not require a smoothing agent or a bonding agent directly to bond onto paint, especially by their choice of carrier solvent as IPA.

In comparison to their ICE Spray Wax, it's water, Polydimethylsiloxane and Carnauba in emulsion form (already mixed with smoothing agents and solvents).
For seal and shine, they use polydimethylsiloxane and aocohol ethoxylates as the solvent/smoothing agent.

Chemically, the two are different in the sense (it seems from the chemicals used) that the polymers in Ceramic Spray Coating has a very low percentage of actual ceramic molecules involved, and needs a curing time due to the crosslinking effects of those polymers.
Seal N Shine has a strong solvent that deposits the PDMS onto the surface. PDMS doesn't really require curing time, it's just on or not.

Judging from that, I wouldn't call this a coating at all but a very economical but effective sealant.

Great post. Thank you.

It's what I would expect, from a chemistry perspective, between the two brands. The shelf brands, such as TW, are economical and if properly used can give you several months of protection. For longer durability, the Cquartz and IGL would be the way to go.

 

[WillSports3]

Pretty much. Biggest difference between "spray coatings" and "true coatings" is actually the liquid bonding agent and carrier solvent. The bonding agent and carrier solvent needs to be strong enough to hold whatever protection agent they use soluble such as SiO2, SiC, PDMS, whatever, all mixed together. And they need to in the liquid form, enable the protection agent to bond onto the paint as well as completely evaporate into the air at the same time. Very expensive mixtures. The cost that you're really paying for isn't the SiO2. SiO2 is cheap, if you were to take let's say Cquartz finest, the TiO and the SiO2 is probably like.. 10 percent of the actual cost. The rest of it is the bonding agent and carrier agent (Solvent). It's why the "true coatings" will always be more expensive than the spray coatings. Also why spray coatings don't last as long. To make a spray coating last for 2 or 3 years, well, imagine paying 200-300 dollars for CanCoat. :shrug:

 

[acuRAS82]

WillSports3 is awesome with his breakdowns. I’m very appreciative. Your input in these things is even better than Pan’s (“THE GLOSS, THE GLOSS, THE GLOSS!!!”).

What would SiC be called in language form, like in the way SiO2 is silica (silicon dioxide being the full name for the chemical). Is SiC in anyway related to siloxane?