Old Tiger
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Wow Jim! I didnt realize you took the plunge too!I agree, Jim! I really like mine! I have become one with my 849X!
Bumblebee - Testing out the NEW DeWALT DWP849X
- Thread starter Mike Phillips
- Start date
Dr Oldz
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- Aug 31, 2010
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I did. I have some miles on it now and I am very happy with my purchase. I think Dewalt really did a nice job on this tool! I am glad you like yours also buddy!! :cheers:
Old Tiger
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It is my first rotary and it seems so perfect. The ergonomics and power are superb. I may be temptted to get a Dynabraid someday too!
Dr Oldz
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Great choice for your first. I also entertained the idea of getting the Flex 14 but after I got this in, I knew I made the right purchase for myself. This has the power I need along with the precision that is required.
Mike Phillips
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Just now found this question Chad...
At the time the answer was "yes" and today the answer is "yes". I've had great results with the Optimum Finish using it with a DA Polisher including the Flex 3401 as well as microfiber pads.
HateSwirls
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Great thread Mike.
Glad you gave me the link being I should have my Optimum Finish Polish by the end of the week , it will be used mostly for jeweling using my new DeWalt 849x which is really a well balanced machine even though it's on the "heavy side"
I can't compare it to the Flex rotary being I never used it but I prefer the 849x over my Makita that was stolen from the back of my truck.
Like you said when you hit the trigger it does rev up past it's set point but only for a few seconds and not a problem, doesn't take long to get use to that part of its operation.
I prefer the side stick over the hoop handle, a lot of time I put the palm of my hand over the head that covers the gears, on the 849x the rubber cover head really is a nice feature.
The trigger is another feature I love, easy to get twofingers on it which helps with fatigue but then again you can lock the speed just by pressing the lock button in.
I'd reccomend the DeWalt 849x to anyone who wants to learn how to use a rotary or for someone who needs to replace their existing rotary.
Glad you gave me the link being I should have my Optimum Finish Polish by the end of the week , it will be used mostly for jeweling using my new DeWalt 849x which is really a well balanced machine even though it's on the "heavy side"
I can't compare it to the Flex rotary being I never used it but I prefer the 849x over my Makita that was stolen from the back of my truck.
Like you said when you hit the trigger it does rev up past it's set point but only for a few seconds and not a problem, doesn't take long to get use to that part of its operation.
I prefer the side stick over the hoop handle, a lot of time I put the palm of my hand over the head that covers the gears, on the 849x the rubber cover head really is a nice feature.
The trigger is another feature I love, easy to get twofingers on it which helps with fatigue but then again you can lock the speed just by pressing the lock button in.
I'd reccomend the DeWalt 849x to anyone who wants to learn how to use a rotary or for someone who needs to replace their existing rotary.
Rsurfer
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Mike Phillips
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Let me chime in with some actual work to back up my opinion plus pictures and videos just to back up Ron.
Here's the first time an entire wetsand, cut and buff was captured all at once on video and for all the rotary buffer steps I only used the Flex PE14
Unless I'm buffing out a boat I always grab the Flex PE14 first.
How to wet sand a car - Time Lapse Video
Back in March of this year, (2013), I did a complete wet sand, cut, polish and even machine waxed a 1964 Chevrolet Malibu and while doing this project, Yancy set the GoPro camera up to take a picture every minute.
It's been in queue for editing since then but I'm happy to announce it's now been edited and uploaded to our YouTube Channel.
How to wet sand a car
[video=youtube_share;5zDuFzvKSAI"]How to wet sand a car[/video]
Here's the steps I followed...
Covered windshield using the Beach Towel Tip.
Covered interior and convertible top with Eco-friendly drop cloth.
Removed easy to access chrome emblems and script.
Wiped entire car down with Wurth Clean-Solve per what I wrote in post #5 here.
Taped-off all edges and raised body lines using 3M Blue Vinyl Tape. Tape-off video here.
Machine sanded all body panels using a 2-step system
First sanding step: I used 3M Trizact #3000 Grit Discs. I used 3" discs for thin panels and around edges and body lines. Used the 6" discs for the major flat sections of each panel.
Second sanding step: I used 3M Trizact #5000 Grit Discs. I used 3" discs for thin panels and around edges and body lines. Used the 6" discs for the major flat sections of each panel.
Removed all sanding marks.
For this I used the new Meguiar's M100 Pro Speed Compound with a LC Wool Cutting pad on the Flex PE14. At the time I did this project back in March of 2013 this compound had just been introduced to the market, so it was a new compound and I think this is the first car completely sanded and compounded and caught on video using M100 Pro Speed Compound. Speed on the Flex PE14 = 1000 RPM.
Removed any swirls left by the wool pad and the compounding step.
For this I used Meguiar's M205, the follow-up polish for M100 with a 6.5" Lake Country Flat Foam Polishing Pad on the Flex PE14. Speed on the Flex PE14 = 1000 RPM
Finish Polished to maximize gloss and ensure no holograms
After using the rotary buffer with the M205 I re-polished every square inch of paint using Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish with a 5.5" Lake Country Foam Flat Finishing Pad on the Porter Cable 7424XP on the 6.0 speed setting.
Machine Waxed
After wiping all the finishing polish off I machine applied Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax using the Porter Cable 7424XP with a 5.5" Lake Country Foam Waxing Pad on the 4-5 speed setting.
Removed Wax
I removed the wax wearing microfiber gloves and using super soft rolled edge microfiber towels.
Comments....
I wanted to document not only the process but how long it would take me to do this type of project all by myself working non-stop. If you watch the video you'll see around the 4:47 time stamp that the car has now been turned around and is facing forward in the garage.
Here's what was going on...
While I did the actual work non-stop, as in once I started in the morning I did not stop till end of day, I did have to spread the work out over two days as I have too many other job duties to process outside of the garage.
The first day I sanded all the horizontal panels and the driver's side panels. The second day I turned the car around and only had to sand the passenger side.
In a number of places you'll see me standing while I either sand and buff or sitting on the floor while I sand and buff and the reason for this is we don't have a car lift in our garage and proper technique when sanding and buffing is to always be looking across from the paint you're working on. This is especially true when sanding and compounding. I always say,
If you can't bring the car up to you, (with a lift), then you have to lower yourself to the car"
The entire process from start to finish as I listed the steps above except for the initial wiping down of the car with a waterless wash and removing the chrome trim took me approximately,
12 Hours
I hustled the entire time. Only a few times did I stop to either take a water break, switch to different products or pads, or talk to someone that may have entered the garage.
I don't recommend ever trying to do this type of work in a hurry as you'll make mistakes so I didn't hurry but I did hustle. Time is valuable for all of us and I did this during business hours so another reason I had to hustle is because when working in the garage, other job responsibilities are on standby.
rops:Mike Phillips
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It was cloudy the day Mike Gelter brought his 1964 Chevy Chevelle Malibu Convertible to Autogeek but I did take a few before pictures to show the current condition of the paint.
Under the cloudy sky you can see the orange peel, it actually looks worse under fluorescents and if I can find the "before" pictures I took under the florescent lights in the studio I'll add them to this thread...
IF you look closely you can see dieback in the paint, that's where the paint shrinks back into the prep sanding marks in the primer. These all sanded and buffed out.
Under the cloudy sky you can see the orange peel, it actually looks worse under fluorescents and if I can find the "before" pictures I took under the florescent lights in the studio I'll add them to this thread...
IF you look closely you can see dieback in the paint, that's where the paint shrinks back into the prep sanding marks in the primer. These all sanded and buffed out.
Mike Phillips
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The only rotary buffer used for this gorgous car was the Flex PE14
Beauty Shots
Until then, here's the beauty shots. I machine sanded twice, compound with wool and rotary once, polished with rotary and foam once, polished with a DA polisher once and then machine applied Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax.
Here's Mike the owner driving the car out of the garage...
The sun shots....
rops: rops: rops: rops: rops:
Beauty Shots
Until then, here's the beauty shots. I machine sanded twice, compound with wool and rotary once, polished with rotary and foam once, polished with a DA polisher once and then machine applied Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax.
Here's Mike the owner driving the car out of the garage...
The sun shots....
rops: rops: rops: rops: rops:Mike Phillips
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I like the DeWALT 849X, in fact I use it for doing heavy grunt work like chopping off heavy oxidation form gel-coat boats...
Sign-up: 2006 Proline 24’ Supersport Boat Detailing Class
This is how you lean into the buffer....
DeWALT 849X sans handle and grabbing the rubber overmold on the head of the unit and the pushing down hard and the DeWALT was getting so hot I almost needed gloves to hold onto it.
Even made it pretty clean in my comparison article....
DeWALT DWP849X vs Makita 9227C Rotary Buffers
But the Flex PE14 is a compact, lightweigh rotary buffer built to high standards in Germany. It's really a nice rotary buffer and moving forward you'll see even more projects buffed out using the Flex PE14 on this forum.
Here's another article that puts full size versus compact size into the perspective....
Flex PE14 vs DeWALT 849X - Comact vs Full Size
The below was originally posted in Post #45 in my review of the DeWALT 849X when it was first introduced.
There's a lot of good information throughout the entire thread including his portion especially in the sections that talk about
Quality never costs money it makes money...
According to Flex the answer is yes. They state that up to an 8" diameter pad can be used with the Flex PE14 but I prefer to stay a little smaller especially for wool pads.
More reciprocating mass creates more torque
My personal thoughts are that if you're going to be buffing out sanding marks all day long or removing oxidation from large boats all day long then a full size rotary buffer would be a better choice.
The gears are bigger in size as are the rest of the components in a full size rotary buffer and I think having more reciprocating mass creates more torque and this is something you would want if you're going to be doing heavy compounding and polishing with full size pads, (8" and larger), 6 days a week.
First major difference is the new Flex PE14 has the design that flushes the tool with air to help the tool run cooler.
More information and a video on this page,
The New FLEX PE14-2-150 Rotary Buffer
Correct and these work well too. You can see them in action here,
Pictures + Video of 1932 Ford Highboy Extreme Makeover
The 3" pads I'm using are some prototypes...
The cart is nice, it makes using the pad washer a lot easier plus gives you plenty of storage space for other related tools.
After about 6 hours of running both rotary buffers here's what I think, the new DeWALT is a great rotary buffer especially for the price. The 600 RPM low range is the most valuable feature. I also really like the rubber bumpers on the back side that enable you to set it down on a polished fender or hood without scratching the paint.
Apples to Oranges
Comparing the Flex PE14 to any of the full size DeWALT rotary buffers, or the Makita, or any other brand of full size rotary buffers is like comparing apples to oranges in that the Flex PE14 is a true compact rotary buffer and falls into the Compact Size category, while the DeWALT DWP849X falls into the Full Size category for rotary buffers.
Makita 9227C vs DeWALT DWP849X
A better comparison would be to compare the Makita 9227C with the DeWALT DWP849X as they are much more similar and my guess is that DeWALT introduced this new model to compete against the Makita rotary buffer. Both of these buffers, the Makita or the DeWALT would be great choices. I've always been a fan of Makita rotary buffers if for no other reason because I used one for years until it finally wore out having purchased it new in 1988.
You can read my full review of these two tools here,
Makita 9227C vs DeWALT DWP849X
The best of both worlds
In a perfect world a person would have at least two rotary buffers, a full size working dog for doing all of the grunt work and a compact, light-weight rotary buffer for when you need to dosurgical precision work. This way you can use the one that best fits the job at hand.
The compact size and low weight of the Flex PE14 plus the 600 RPM range are the features I'm most attracted to. It's light weight and small size make it really easy to control when doing intricate work. Perhaps we'll see the introduction of other compact, lightweight rotary buffers into the future.
After the compounding the upper half of the 1949 Sedan Delivery, I just switched over to the Flex PE14 due to the light weight and compact size features. I could have used either for the rest of the job by my preference was for the easiest tool to work with as this streetrod has a lot of real-estate to buff.
Here's some pictures to show relative sizes...
The two Flex rotary buffers on the left are in the Compact category while the other 4 rotary buffers are in the Full Size category. Comparing the compacts with the full size rotary buffers can be done but it trends towards the comparing applies to oranges analogy as in person and in use you can tell right away when you switch from a full size to a compact or visa-versa.
The new DeWALT DWP849X is wider and more bulky like the other full size rotary buffers in these pictures.
You can that the Flex is more narrow from top to bottom...
:buffing:
Sign-up: 2006 Proline 24’ Supersport Boat Detailing Class
This is how you lean into the buffer....
DeWALT 849X sans handle and grabbing the rubber overmold on the head of the unit and the pushing down hard and the DeWALT was getting so hot I almost needed gloves to hold onto it.
Even made it pretty clean in my comparison article....
DeWALT DWP849X vs Makita 9227C Rotary Buffers
But the Flex PE14 is a compact, lightweigh rotary buffer built to high standards in Germany. It's really a nice rotary buffer and moving forward you'll see even more projects buffed out using the Flex PE14 on this forum.
Here's another article that puts full size versus compact size into the perspective....
Flex PE14 vs DeWALT 849X - Comact vs Full Size
The below was originally posted in Post #45 in my review of the DeWALT 849X when it was first introduced.
There's a lot of good information throughout the entire thread including his portion especially in the sections that talk about
Quality never costs money it makes money...
According to Flex the answer is yes. They state that up to an 8" diameter pad can be used with the Flex PE14 but I prefer to stay a little smaller especially for wool pads.
More reciprocating mass creates more torque
My personal thoughts are that if you're going to be buffing out sanding marks all day long or removing oxidation from large boats all day long then a full size rotary buffer would be a better choice.
The gears are bigger in size as are the rest of the components in a full size rotary buffer and I think having more reciprocating mass creates more torque and this is something you would want if you're going to be doing heavy compounding and polishing with full size pads, (8" and larger), 6 days a week.
First major difference is the new Flex PE14 has the design that flushes the tool with air to help the tool run cooler.
More information and a video on this page,
The New FLEX PE14-2-150 Rotary Buffer
Correct and these work well too. You can see them in action here,
Pictures + Video of 1932 Ford Highboy Extreme Makeover
The 3" pads I'm using are some prototypes...
The cart is nice, it makes using the pad washer a lot easier plus gives you plenty of storage space for other related tools.
After about 6 hours of running both rotary buffers here's what I think, the new DeWALT is a great rotary buffer especially for the price. The 600 RPM low range is the most valuable feature. I also really like the rubber bumpers on the back side that enable you to set it down on a polished fender or hood without scratching the paint.
Apples to Oranges
Comparing the Flex PE14 to any of the full size DeWALT rotary buffers, or the Makita, or any other brand of full size rotary buffers is like comparing apples to oranges in that the Flex PE14 is a true compact rotary buffer and falls into the Compact Size category, while the DeWALT DWP849X falls into the Full Size category for rotary buffers.
Makita 9227C vs DeWALT DWP849X
A better comparison would be to compare the Makita 9227C with the DeWALT DWP849X as they are much more similar and my guess is that DeWALT introduced this new model to compete against the Makita rotary buffer. Both of these buffers, the Makita or the DeWALT would be great choices. I've always been a fan of Makita rotary buffers if for no other reason because I used one for years until it finally wore out having purchased it new in 1988.
You can read my full review of these two tools here,
Makita 9227C vs DeWALT DWP849X
The best of both worlds
In a perfect world a person would have at least two rotary buffers, a full size working dog for doing all of the grunt work and a compact, light-weight rotary buffer for when you need to dosurgical precision work. This way you can use the one that best fits the job at hand.
The compact size and low weight of the Flex PE14 plus the 600 RPM range are the features I'm most attracted to. It's light weight and small size make it really easy to control when doing intricate work. Perhaps we'll see the introduction of other compact, lightweight rotary buffers into the future.
After the compounding the upper half of the 1949 Sedan Delivery, I just switched over to the Flex PE14 due to the light weight and compact size features. I could have used either for the rest of the job by my preference was for the easiest tool to work with as this streetrod has a lot of real-estate to buff.
Here's some pictures to show relative sizes...
The two Flex rotary buffers on the left are in the Compact category while the other 4 rotary buffers are in the Full Size category. Comparing the compacts with the full size rotary buffers can be done but it trends towards the comparing applies to oranges analogy as in person and in use you can tell right away when you switch from a full size to a compact or visa-versa.
The new DeWALT DWP849X is wider and more bulky like the other full size rotary buffers in these pictures.
You can that the Flex is more narrow from top to bottom...
:buffing:
Mike,
I can't quite tell, from the side-by-side photo above of the Makita and the Dewalt, if one is slightly taller and wider than the other. From that photo the Makita seems a bit more bulky, but it's hard to tell from the angle the Makita seems to be sitting.
Wish I'd have taken the time to compare all 3 rotary's while in Evansville, but I knew you were tired and needing to go, so I didn't bother.
I'm looking to pick one or the other real soon. Is there much difference in the weight of the two? In fact, if things go right, I may pick up a PE 14 and one of the other two at the same time.
I can't quite tell, from the side-by-side photo above of the Makita and the Dewalt, if one is slightly taller and wider than the other. From that photo the Makita seems a bit more bulky, but it's hard to tell from the angle the Makita seems to be sitting.
Wish I'd have taken the time to compare all 3 rotary's while in Evansville, but I knew you were tired and needing to go, so I didn't bother.
I'm looking to pick one or the other real soon. Is there much difference in the weight of the two? In fact, if things go right, I may pick up a PE 14 and one of the other two at the same time.
HateSwirls
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- Jun 24, 2013
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Per reviews the Flex PE-14 wins.
If you can accord it buy it, I'm sure you'll love it:dblthumb2:
Myself I'm happy, very happy with my 849x
One thing I see on the Flex is the trigger is in the open, meaning very easy to get to.
See what I mean by looking at it?
If you can accord it buy it, I'm sure you'll love it:dblthumb2:
Myself I'm happy, very happy with my 849x
One thing I see on the Flex is the trigger is in the open, meaning very easy to get to.
See what I mean by looking at it?
Mike Phillips
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- #94
I'll take a close look tomorrow when we're buffing out the 1959 Impala and the 1965 Ford Truck.
Both rigs are HUGE and for both rigs the first step will be to cut them with compounds and rotary buffers and I'm going to let everyone there choose which rotary buffer they want to use.
I don't really care which rotary buffer a person purchases that's all up to them, but I've been to the Flex plant in person and seen how the Flex polishers are built as well as their quality control processes and with a background of working in a Class 9000 Cleanroom I'm here to tell you these are super high quality polishers.
Nothing against China, the Chinese people or products made in China as that's how the world operates now but the DeWALT 849X is made in China and it's a heavy, rugged tool.
If you're going to get a full size rotary buffer and I recommend you do, then get the DeWALT for the reasons I show in my review.
DeWALT DWP849X vs Makita 9227C Rotary Buffers
And remember.... I grew up and cut my teeth on a Makita...
Mike Phillips
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Myself I'm happy, very happy with my 849x
I'll back you up on this... if a person is going to get just one rotary buffer the DeWALT can do it all.
I remember when a Rep from DeWALT came to the forums back in 2008 or so and asked detailers for their input on what type of features they would like to see in a new design.
I probably still have my private message conversations with this Rep.
I'm happy to say that as far as I can tell, all the suggestions the detailing community gave to him they incorporated into the 849X. It's the best full size rotary buffer money can buy.
Down the road, if you're successful in your detailing business, then add the Flex PE14.
Then no matter what the project, you can pick and choose the best tool to suit your taste.
HateSwirls
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- Jun 24, 2013
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It's apparent the Rep took the feedback here and brought it to the table for DeWalt because it's such a great tool.
Within a half hour I knew it was for me.
Even my PC which was my first "DA" I was happy with the purchase right away.
Still today I use it, I mostly use it with my four inch pads.
It's been through hell and back and not one hiccup
I have other buffers but the PC and the DeWalt 849x will last me a lifetime.
A pass on tool/tools:dblthumb2:
I'm a tool guy like most here, I'm sure down the road a Flex P-14 will be here in my shop but right now loving the DeWalt.
Within a half hour I knew it was for me.
Even my PC which was my first "DA" I was happy with the purchase right away.
Still today I use it, I mostly use it with my four inch pads.
It's been through hell and back and not one hiccup
I have other buffers but the PC and the DeWalt 849x will last me a lifetime.
A pass on tool/tools:dblthumb2:
I'm a tool guy like most here, I'm sure down the road a Flex P-14 will be here in my shop but right now loving the DeWalt.
I'll back you up on this... if a person is going to get just one rotary buffer the D
eWALT can do it all.
I remember when a Rep from DeWALT came to the forums back in 2008 or so and asked detailers for their input on what type of features they would like to see in a new design.
I probably still have my private message conversations with this Rep.
I'm happy to say that as far as I can tell, all the suggestions the detailing community gave to him they incorporated into the 849X. It's the best full size rotary buffer money can buy.
Down the road, if you're successful in your detailing business, then add the Flex PE14.
Then no matter what the project, you can pick and choose the best tool to suit your taste.
HateSwirls
New member
- Jun 24, 2013
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"According to Flex the answer is yes. They state that up to an 8" diameter pad can be used with the Flex PE14 but I prefer to stay a little smaller especially for wool pads."
I tried out the 8" 3M pads using the DeWalt.
I found it to still be very smooth and plenty of power to turn the wheel at its set speed.
A beast but yet so smooth to operate it.
I tried out the 8" 3M pads using the DeWalt.
I found it to still be very smooth and plenty of power to turn the wheel at its set speed.
A beast but yet so smooth to operate it.
Mike Phillips
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8" pads are no problem on any rotary buffer but generally speaking the smaller the pad the easier it is to control the tool.
Keeping your pad clean is probably the most important aspect of making any pad easy to control on a rotary buffer becase the longer you buff the more wet your pads will become with whatever product you're using and this causes buffer hop.
You want to play with a big pad get an 11" wool pad!
HateSwirls
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Re: Bumblebee
65% swirl removing using Optimum Finish Polish using a gray finishing pad is very impressive:dblthumb2:
Can't wait to try my new bottle of Optimim Finish Polishing and my new Lake Country Flat pads that I will get tomorrow :dblthumb2:
AG has a great price for a 6 pack:dblthumb2:
Test Spot Results
Did 3 Test Spots starting with the least aggressive products and pads to get the job done...
After each section was buffed I then wiped the section clean using MS followed by IPA.
The percentages below are simply based upon experience from doing compound and polish testing. Usually it's timed, for this test I just counted to 6 section passes after 1 pass to spread the product out.
- Test Spot 1 - Optimum Finish with a Gray CS Finishing pad on 1000 RPM - 65% Swirl Removal
- Test Spot 2 - Optimum Polish II with White CS Polishing Pad at 1000 RPM - 80% Swirl Removal
- Test Spot 3 - Optimum Compound with an Orange CS Cutting Pad at 1000 RPM - 95% Swirl Removal
After the compounding on Test Spot 3 I then re-polished using the gray finishing pad with the Optimum Finish and chemically stripped again with both MS and IPA and the finish looked swirl free. The sun is too far down in the sky to pull the car out and inspect in the sun so all I used was the Brinkmann Swirl Finder Light.
Tried to take close-up shots across from where I marked the painter's tape with the numbers, 1, 2, and 3 but what I could see with my eyes I just couldn't capture with my camera.
65% swirl removing using Optimum Finish Polish using a gray finishing pad is very impressive:dblthumb2:
Can't wait to try my new bottle of Optimim Finish Polishing and my new Lake Country Flat pads that I will get tomorrow :dblthumb2:
AG has a great price for a 6 pack:dblthumb2:
Mike Phillips
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Re: Bumblebee
That's pretty easy for any light cutting polish as the majority of swirls for most cars are shallow.
It's always the deeper swirls and scratches that take more time, more aggressive pads and products.
While I never really like the custom grill on this 1949 Panel Delivery I like panel deliveries in general. Reminds me of the Chevy HHR.
Looks good from this angle...
:xyxthumbs:
That's pretty easy for any light cutting polish as the majority of swirls for most cars are shallow.
It's always the deeper swirls and scratches that take more time, more aggressive pads and products.
While I never really like the custom grill on this 1949 Panel Delivery I like panel deliveries in general. Reminds me of the Chevy HHR.
Looks good from this angle...
:xyxthumbs: